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  #11  
Old 12-28-2005, 04:23 PM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default Re: Three hands vs. same player, Super Monday

The turn action in the last two hands isn't that interesting (I filled up in one, BB overcalled in the other) so I'm more curious in what happens before that.

I also strongly disagree that his range is that large in Hand 2 and I'm disappointed that nobody except EK focused on it. Look at what we know about him:

1)He probably had a T in Hand 1, so we know he open limps speculative hands and might/might not go too far with them;

2)He limped this UTG and minbet a Q96, 2 suited board into 4 people.

I think that's a much narrower hand range and while it probably suggests a raise, you already know the outcome (he will call) before it happens. Nobody else behind you usually calls that action with less than AQ so you can pretty much ignore them (if they do, you push most turns and they call/fold/etc).
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2005, 05:03 PM
illegit illegit is offline
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Default Re: Three hands vs. same player, Super Monday

Hand 1: I'd bet the turn. And check-call what is hopefully not a big bet on the river if I got called on the turn. If it is sizable I'd probably check-fold the river.

Hand 2: I put him on a draw and i raise to 100 and fully expect to be called, and play the turn accordingly. If he happens to have a Q or a donked overpair of some sort then goody, hopefully he re-raises, but a raise works no matter what he has.

Hand 3: I like your line I think. Is the plan to call down with position or to raise the turn?
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2005, 05:24 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Three hands vs. same player, Super Monday

[ QUOTE ]

I think that's a much narrower hand range

[/ QUOTE ]

Much narrower than what? Flush draws, Q9, QT, AA, even 66 could all be played this way given a suitably fishy opponent, which isn't exactly a narrow range. While it's reasonable to think he'll call after minbetting if we raise, I don't think it's a given, and I don't think we can really put him on a very well-defined range at all, because I think it's clear that his thought processes are vague at best.

Inflating the pot seems like the way to go, because if he's not calling now, I don't see when he's going to call. He doesn't seem like the type to bet our hand for us, obviously. If the flush comes, I probably slow down and go into pot control mode, otherwise I just value bet the whole way and wait for the dinky river raise if he actually had a solid holding.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:23 PM
EverettKings EverettKings is offline
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Location: Williamsburg, VA
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Default Re: Three hands vs. same player, Super Monday

[ QUOTE ]

1)He probably had a T in Hand 1, so we know he open limps speculative hands and might/might not go too far with them;


[/ QUOTE ]
I think we can all agree that this guy is limping lots of marginal/speculative stuff and possibly goes to far with top pair hands (likely AT in hand 1)

[ QUOTE ]

2)He limped this UTG and minbet a Q96, 2 suited board into 4 people.


[/ QUOTE ]

To me this says "I have a marginalish one pair hand and want to see everyone react" OR "I have a draw and want to poke it along and somewhat control the betting". Because there are 3 Qs in the deck and one 9 (among other reasons) its most likely for him to have a Q-medium here. But since we know he can overplay it and is quite likely too passive to make any real bets for himself, we need to steadily build a pot to keep popping him for value. If you make it 100 here, bet 180 on the turn, and 260 on the river, he'll probably call down with his QJ if the board doesn't get too scary. And if he has a draw he's calling incorrectly and won't get paid off (since we can pretty safely fold if draws get there and he bets something meaningful).

Just calling the flop will not only allow others in with lots of crap with an out here and there, but it will also prevent us from gaining nice value bets from our donkey friend.

[ QUOTE ]

you already know the outcome (he will call) before it happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone who minbets like that clearly does not think like we do and is capable of anything. I've seen guys minbet/minraise or minbet/fold or minbet/push or all kinds of stuff. I'd say he calls something like 60% of the time, folds 30%, and reraises 10%. So yeah he usually calls and thats what we expect but its not like its automatic.


In any case, against guys that appear donkish like that, its usually better to just play straight forward and let them make the mistakes for me instead of trying to figure out a fancy way to outplay them. I usually just end up outthinking myself.



Everett
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  #15  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:04 AM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default Re: Three hands vs. same player, Super Monday

You're right, I should also have said 'or he'll fold'...but if he folds the hand is over/uninteresting (and if he pushes obviously we call).

We expect him to call and proceed as such because that is a)what he will most likely do and b)because we want to think further ahead than just 'hey I have the best hand so I raise'...and then get lost when a scare card comes. It's also important to raise the proper amount to control the pot vs. that hand range so that when a scare card does hit we're not priced in.

FWIW, in the actual hand I raised to 90.
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:24 AM
schwza schwza is offline
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Posts: 113
Default Re: Three hands vs. same player, Super Monday

[ QUOTE ]
The turn action in the last two hands isn't that interesting (I filled up in one, BB overcalled in the other) so I'm more curious in what happens before that.

I also strongly disagree that his range is that large in Hand 2 and I'm disappointed that nobody except EK focused on it. Look at what we know about him:

1)He probably had a T in Hand 1, so we know he open limps speculative hands and might/might not go too far with them;

2)He limped this UTG and minbet a Q96, 2 suited board into 4 people.

I think that's a much narrower hand range and while it probably suggests a raise, you already know the outcome (he will call) before it happens. Nobody else behind you usually calls that action with less than AQ so you can pretty much ignore them (if they do, you push most turns and they call/fold/etc).

[/ QUOTE ]

raising is pretty cleary right on the flop. (if you disagree, say so, and we can talk about it). there is still an interesting decision on the turn once you fill. if you fill and he pushes the turn, then it's not a very interesting hand. so be it. i'm sorry, but this is not an interesting hand, at least at the the decision node that you've given us.
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  #17  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: Three hands vs. same player, Super Monday

Hand 1...bet the turn pretty big
Hand 2...re-raise to 80
Hand 3...re-raise preflop, fold to a flop bet
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