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#41
10-21-2005, 11:02 PM
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Re: Dear Christians: why doesn\'t god DO something?
"Is God's lack of direct revelation to humans a good proof that He does not exist?"
Not at all. But it is very strong evidence that the God that people expect might answer their prayers dosn't exist. 
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#42
10-21-2005, 11:54 PM
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Re: Dear Christians: why doesn\'t god DO something?
" [ QUOTE ]
Is God's lack of direct revelation to humans a good proof that He does not exist?" [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Not at all. But it is very strong evidence that the God that people expect might answer their prayers dosn't exist. [/ QUOTE ] Is that even any different than what's being suggested in the question? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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#43
10-22-2005, 12:42 AM
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Re: Dear Christians: why doesn\'t god DO something?
[ QUOTE ]
The following can be found here: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notseegod.html God Has Not Revealed Himself to Me, So He Must Not Exist Is God's lack of direct revelation to humans a good proof that He does not exist? A teacher is using the "scientific method" to teach the class about evolution... TEACHER: Tommy do you see the tree outside? TOMMY: Yes. TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside? TOMMY: Yes. TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky. TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky. TEACHER: Did you see God? TOMMY: No. TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. He doesn't exist. A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. The teacher agreed and the little girl questioned the boy. LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the tree outside? TOMMY: Yes. LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside? TOMMY: Yessssss (getting tired of the questions this time). LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky? TOMMY: Yessssss. LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher? TOMMY: Yes LITTLE GIRL: Do you see the teacher's brain? TOMMY: No. LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she must not have one! The above joke is a good lesson in the problem of trying to prove the existence of God using the scientific tools available to us. A Creator God, if He exists, must, by definition, exist beyond the limits of the universe in order to have created it. The laws of physics tell us that we cannot make measurements beyond the limits of this universe. Therefore, scientists can conclusively determine that we cannot ever detect God using any of our instruments. However, God is not restricted to our limitations and could choose to reveal part of Himself to us. God could not reveal His entirety to us without causing major problems in our universe. The sudden appearance of dimensions and matter(?) from outside the universe would destroy anything in the vicinity and maybe even destroy the entire universe. This is why the Bible says that nobody can see God and live.1 However, God could reveal His nature by communicating with humans and sending an incarnated version of Himself. This is exactly what Christianity claims - that God gave messages to humans (through the prophets) and sent an incarnation of Himself (His Son), who took on the form of a human2 in order to interact with humans directly. Although you cannot see God directly in this life (but you will see Him in the next), you can experience Him through your spirit. This is the claim and promise3 of Christianity that accounts for its popularity. When you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior,4 you enter into a relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which you will directly experience when you come to faith, confirms both the existence and the power of God to the believer. It is through this relationship that we can enter into the joy of the Lord and experience the fullness of the Christian life.5 If you are not a Christian, you will not believe what I just told you. I know, because when I was an agnostic for 33 years, I did not believe that you could have a relationship with God. Since 1988 I have been experiencing the joy of the fellowship of the Lord and I want the same for you. Don't wait! Get your questions answered and come to faith based upon the facts, and enter into the joy that cannot be found through anything else in this world. Well, its your choice. Do you see your brain? [/ QUOTE ] Can you cut open someones head and see God? Nice metaphor you stupid jackass.
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#44
10-22-2005, 12:56 AM
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Re: Dear Christians: why doesn\'t god DO something?
[ QUOTE ]
So seriously, why doesn't God SHOW himself through something believable to a skeptic? He did it in the old days, why not now? [/ QUOTE ] First of all miracles were not done before that many people, nor all that often. The entire Bible covers a time period of at least 2000 years and the events it records all occur in the Middle East. Most of the miracles were not done to prove that God exists, but to authenticate His Word or His messenger. Pharoah could believe that it was Almighty God because of the nature and extent of the miracles. People could believe that Jesus was the Son because He performed so many miracles. In other words, miracles were not done in a vacuum nor because they were demanded by unbelievers so God could have the wonderful privilege of being believed in by them. Miracles were often not enough to convince people. Pharoah was reluctant to let God's people go. In the New Testament Jesus says: Matthew 11: 20Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. 21"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes." And finally, miracles are not necessary in order for unbelief to render someone accountable. Romans 1 says that God makes Himself known to everyone through what has been made. It says that people then suppress this truth and that in doing so they make themselves "without excuse", literally anapologia, or without a defense. What you know from nature and from conscience is enough to be held accountable by God. Jesus said to Thomas: John: 29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
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#49
10-22-2005, 01:24 AM
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Re: Dear Christians: why doesn\'t god DO something?
It is much more convenient for those claiming that God performs miracles if there is scant evidence of them, so we have to take the word of the Word as, excuse the expression, the gospel truth. That way, when somebody asks why He doesn't perform some now, they can say, well, they were few and far between even in those days.
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#50
10-22-2005, 01:57 AM
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Re: Dear Christians: why doesn\'t god DO something?
On the contrary, there were skeptics at the Fatima event, who went specifically to debunk the supposed miracles that were to happen that day. All of them acknowledged the miracle and these events were reported in anti-clerical newspapers as well. That is over 70,000 eyewitnesses.
I would like to see how the skeptics try to debunk the skeptics. As well, there are the miracles of the stigmata and bilocation reported around Padre Pio. He died in the 60's and there are tons of records to document these things. The stigmata disappeared on the same day he died without leaving any scars, and this is on film. Of course, there are also numerous examples of people who were healed on their deathbed by receiving the last rites, which sometimes occurs if God so chooses. You can check the records at Catholic hospitals. God does these things for the benefit of Catholics and not for others because He does not like the rest of you.
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