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#1
08-18-2005, 12:40 PM
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Re: Using ALL CAPS doesn\'t strengthen your position
[ QUOTE ]
In that thread you linked I advocated no such thing. [/ QUOTE ] Let's put your cheering of Mr. "dove season" aside for a moment (we'll get back to it at the end of the post). As your justification for banning, you stated that that you never had advocated violence against Americans as part of your explanation as to why Jokerswild's statement was "defamatory". [ QUOTE ] Firstly, you are greatly stretching the definition of violence. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 1. "Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing" . . . 4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power [/ QUOTE ] --American Heritage College Dictionary 1531 (4th Ed. 2002) So you say. I say that you are mistaken. [ QUOTE ] In another thread I did suggest something deportation but not violence in certain cases (regarding certain visa holders or immigrants, which I will address below). [/ QUOTE ] Specifically, you advocated the deportation of not only "visa holders", but naturalized citizens. Right? The rest of your post depends on the deporting of citizens for speech not being deemed a violent act. As set forth above I believe that you are wrong. Now, this disagreement can be characterized as one about an objective fact (the meaning of "violence") or as one of opinion regarding whether deporting citizens under the circumstances you describe is "abusive" or "unjust". But what my statement cannot be described as is "defamatory". And neither can jokerswild's, for similar reasons. You own him an apology for the banning. He might well owe you one for the content of his post, but that is neither here nor there. Your banning of him was an abuse of power. P.S. I see that jaxmike made several replies to my posts. Someone please remind him that I have him on "ignore". 
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#2
08-18-2005, 01:26 PM
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Re: Using ALL CAPS doesn\'t strengthen your position
I didn't advocate violence against Americans. My suggestion that legal changes be made to allow the deportation of certain individuals is not equivalent to the advocation of violence. You may find my elaboration elsewhere in this thread.
I think in your case you may just be a little confused about all this. In jokerswild's case however I believe he deliberately and maliciously misrepresented the views of another poster which is a different matter altogether. This in fact is exactly what I had forewarned him about. Please note that this is consistent with jokerswild's pattern of past posts regarding not only myself but other posters, as is his pattern of terrible name-calling.
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#3
08-18-2005, 01:47 PM
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Re: Using ALL CAPS doesn\'t strengthen your position
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't advocate violence against Americans. [/ QUOTE ] What you advocate is clear. Whether it is "violence against Americans" or not is a matter of opinion. [ QUOTE ] In jokerswild's case however I believe he deliberately and maliciously misrepresented the views of another poster which is a different matter altogether. [/ QUOTE ] As I believe I have shown, what jokerswild said is a matter of opinion. It is not defamatory. Indeed, in the original thread you have admitted as much, and have said that the difference is in interpretations of the meaning of firing a shot into the air. If what jokerswild said was not defamatory, he should not have been banned. I shall change my avatar and location in protest of your actions.
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#4
08-18-2005, 01:56 PM
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Re: Using ALL CAPS doesn\'t strengthen your position
What jokerswild said is false and defamatory.
He said I advocated violence against Americans and then used a Tim McVeigh reference to me in his name-calling, so clearly he wasn't meaning that I was only suggesting changing some law regarding deportation. The McVeigh reference fits perfectly with a claim regarding *real* violence. So, this shoots down your theory, I think. edit: oops, jokerswild didn't make the claim regarding deportation. But his use of the McVeigh reference combined with his claim that I advocate violence against Americans makes it a seriously defamatory accusation (and one which is clearly false). No matter what he, you or anyone else think of the dove-hunting incident interview, you all know that I do not advocate violence against Americans--and especially not in the McVeigh sense. So you must have missed that reference in your analysis. If you don't agree, fine, but that's my firm opinion.
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#5
08-18-2005, 02:29 PM
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This discussion is a waste of time
MMMMMM,
My advice is to stop arguing. You have made your points. These guys are like the backers of Cindy Sheehan and anti-war kooks in the media, as long as they keep this as the top topic of discussion, they think they are winning. The endless OOT moderation threads make it clear that you (as a moderator) can not win by continuing to debate. The fact that they don't even accurately represent the facts (about what constitutes violence or about jokerswild) makes this plain. Liberals only attack when they can't defend their irrational positions, and jokerswild has never been exactly rational IMO. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#6
08-18-2005, 05:20 PM
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Re: This discussion is a waste of time
Well done, 103 words just to say 'they don't agree with me, they must be wrong'. Maybe one day your son will be brought home in a box, then you will be in a position to comment on Cindy Sheehans actions, I hope not though. There is nothing kooky about an anti-war position, mindlessly supporting a war is more irrational.
You suck BGC [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Mack
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#7
08-18-2005, 07:45 PM
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Re: This discussion is a waste of time
[ QUOTE ]
Liberals only attack when they can't defend their irrational positions [/ QUOTE ] Why do you have to say this only about liberals? Conservatives do the exact same thing. Both sides are guilty of many of the same bad tactics. When you say the kind of stuff I quoted above, it becomes very hard to take anything you say seriously. P.S. I think MMMMMM is a great mod. From what I have seen, he has done absolutely nothing wrong. Keep up the good work, MMMMMM.
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#10
08-18-2005, 02:15 PM
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Re: Using ALL CAPS doesn\'t strengthen your position
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I didn't advocate violence against Americans. [/ QUOTE ] What you advocate is clear. Whether it is "violence against Americans" or not is a matter of opinion. [ QUOTE ] In jokerswild's case however I believe he deliberately and maliciously misrepresented the views of another poster which is a different matter altogether. [/ QUOTE ] As I believe I have shown, what jokerswild said is a matter of opinion. It is not defamatory. Indeed, in the original thread you have admitted as much, and have said that the difference is in interpretations of the meaning of firing a shot into the air. If what jokerswild said was not defamatory, he should not have been banned. I shall change my avatar and location in protest of your actions. [/ QUOTE ] You are protesting actions that you clearly lack a solid understanding of. Had you seen the messages MMMMMM has given to posters, not limited to jokerswild, you would know that M6, as moderator, has made it known that personal attacks of any kind are not to be tolerated. Jokerswild was given fair warning and continued. If this particular part of 2+2 is to ever be even partially civilized, the need for a concept of what is acceptable and unacceptable is obvious. In another thread, I was warned for posting insulting remarks toward either Cyrus or Chris Alger (I don't remember which)...I'm certain that had I continued on the same path, my fate would have been the same as jokerswild's, and rightfully so. But, as I said in the thread jw got banned over, its clear that the only people who disagree with M6 are those who disagree with him politically anyways, so I shouldn't be surprised.
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Hybrid Mode
