2 RIVER CHECKRAISES.

[flawless_victory]

full ring internet.

i open redAA EMP. a straightforward reg in the party 100 threebets 2 seats later.
this is the guy who the EP raiser in the ugly AQs hand... he is a fairly tight raiser... if he had a good but not great hand and wanted to see a flop, hed just call. reraise means a solid hand. i cap and we take the flop HU.

flop: Kx9d7x
bet, he calls.

turn: 3d
bet, he raises w/out hesitation, i call.

river: 2x
chekc, he pauses about 5 second and bets, i raise intending to (cry)call a threebet.


i open KJo in CO, LAGish BN threebets, blinds fold and i cap it.

flop: K22r
bet, he pauses a while then raise, i call.

turn: 9
check, bet, i call

river: 9
i checkraise intending to (cry)call a threebet.

[CardSharpCook]

so... 3 combos of KK, 6 combos of AK. You can't fold to a 3bet, and we'll say he can't fold AK to a raise. The 3 times he has KK you lose 2 more BBs than you would be just calling, so you lose 6BBs. The 6 times he has AK, you make 1 extra BB winning 6BBs. So, it is EV neutral. I don't like variance for the sake of variance, so I just call.

Does he have any other hand besides AK/KK/AA which calls a chk/rz? Remember, 99 is out there too... Actually I think the existance of 99 makes this a check/call. Does he call with JJ/QQ/AQ to a river check/rz? Does he even bet these hands here?

whatever, check/call.

Hand 2: KJo... cap it up??? I don't think so... However the way the hand played, I gotta get a checkraise in on the turn or river. However, can we really depend on him to bet a non-K that loses to you on the river? His flop action doesn't say AK to me. KQ is always possible. QQ/JJ/TT? I see him checking behind a lot of 2nd best hands. I get the check/raise in on the turn. I just don't know what you're expecting him to call on the river with. This is a hand where I wish I had AK instead of KJ so I could have HIM calling with KQ/KJ.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: KJo... cap it up??? I don't think so...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I like the preflop cap. Button is laggish, we quite possible have the best hand, and that one extra small bet lets us retain momentum and makes winning if we both whiff much easier. Our hand no longer looks like a mediocre steal holding, it looks strong.

Given that, and that villian still bet both big bet streets, I'm not sure I like a c/r at any time post flop.

lf

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: KJo... cap it up??? I don't think so...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I like the preflop cap. Button is laggish, we quite possible have the best hand, and that one extra small bet lets us retain momentum and makes winning if we both whiff much easier. Our hand no longer looks like a mediocre steal holding, it looks strong.

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this. i have been experimenting lately with widening my capping range when my late position open raise is three-bet by an aggressive player, and it definitely seems helpful.

a) if you both whiff, it's easier for you to win.

b) people seem less likely to play back at you w/ air after you've capped.

[vmacosta]

Most people who cap here with hands like KJo mess this up cuz they never cap with AA/KK. This play works great for Flawless cuz he does.

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]

so... 3 combos of KK, 6 combos of AK. You can't fold to a 3bet, and we'll say he can't fold AK to a raise. The 3 times he has KK you lose 2 more BBs than you would be just calling, so you lose 6BBs. The 6 times he has AK, you make 1 extra BB winning 6BBs. So, it is EV neutral. I don't like variance for the sake of variance, so I just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can discount KK a lot. This is the level in which people finally realise it's best to raise the flop not turn with KK.

Hand 2, i lead the turn, a lot depends on 'laggish' though.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
You can discount KK a lot. This is the level in which people finally realise it's best to raise the flop not turn with KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gambler why would this be so? My take has always been, "well, I've flopped top set and he's betting into me. He's obviously bluffing. I'll let him bluff the turn too." Is your contention that it is more deceptive to fastplay? But what is the point of fastplaying vs. hands that can't call you down?

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can discount KK a lot. This is the level in which people finally realise it's best to raise the flop not turn with KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gambler why would this be so? My take has always been, "well, I've flopped top set and he's betting into me. He's obviously bluffing. I'll let him bluff the turn too." Is your contention that it is more deceptive to fastplay? But what is the point of fastplaying vs. hands that can't call you down?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know were you got the bluffing from, hero in this hand capped preflop. Most cap ranges are AA KK QQ AK. I want to be raising the flop vs that range.

[stoxtrader]

i disagree that is "most cap ranges"

flawless,

hand 1: do you think there's any chance he gets away from a king if you 3 bet the turn? actually since his three-betting standards dictate the only king he would have here is AK, i would say no. that being said, i would go ahead and 3 bet the turn because you get the same value and you charge more if he is getting frisky with a turned nut flush draw.

only downside is if he was employing a free showdown play w/ QQ-TT and will immediately fold to a 3-bet. i still would three-bet this though.

hand 2:

i like this more, because if you give more action earlier you give him the opportunity to get away from a worse hand and punish you with a better one. i think this cr has value b/c i see him paying off w/ a bunch of hands, and even the hands he may have that you're behind will have a hard time 3-betting you.