100-200 Hand...did anyone play it well?

[Coilean]

The big question is the good player's preflop play. He may have been right (or only slightly wrong, J9s is still a piece of crap heads up against a loose raiser [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) to enter the pot preflop simply because the bad player was in there and he had position on him with an okay hand.

J9s may be stooping a bit low, but I generally think good players in late position should loosen up their starting requirements significantly after a bad player has entered the pot. If the good player is in for this reason, then his opponent probably isn't the type to be stolen from very often, so reraising to isolate loses a lot of it's value unless he has a good heads up hand already, and he's probably looking to either flop something and get paid off or get out. But it's also possible that the good player isn't as good as you thought. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

As for the good player's postflop play, the only real decision is whether or not to raise the flop, and calling seems best to me. Given his opponent is overaggressive and pays off too much (assuming the good player entered the pot correctly preflop), raising the flop would probably have him looking at a reraise too often to make it profitable to semibluff or go for a free card.

[berya]

I can see how a top player can get away with this call. He knows his apponent well, he is on the button, he is mixing up. It would even be more true if this hand was live. Just my thoughts.

[Rushmore]

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Big DD:

I'm not going to comment on the specific hand, but one characteristic I've noticed of the bigger games when I have played them is that many of the so called very good players are simply too loose before the flop.

They're aware that better players can play more hands, and they do play well and tricky from the flop on. But they frequently go overbaord and just play too many hands.

So if you play pretty well from the flop on you can have an edge in these games, though not a very big one, by just playing tighter than most of these experts. Their loose play will cost them some, but not all of their win.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Big Dave D]

As my tone probably already indicated, Im with Mason on this one. The J9s seems just waay too loose. As a whole, knowing the hand is more than likely going to get headsup, I really hate any cold call here. It simply loses the caller the initiative. He now has to hit a hand/draw or try a potentially costly bluff with just J high. The just over 1.5 to 1 immediate odds in no way justify this. I also don't like the flat call on the flop. This seems a perfect flop to raise. Against a lot of hands, he will have at least 11 outs, and should raise for both deception and value. I havent done th sums but Im not sure being 3 bet would be a disaster

gl

dd

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
But they frequently go overbaord and just play too many hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true. When I started playing 80-160 I also noticed some otherwise very good players who, if they saw that a new player was tight, would jump to the conclusion that that probably means weak-tight. They would then play overly aggressively against him, providing excessive action, trying to bet and raise him off hands. If you find yourself in the place of this opponent, you can obviously take advantage of this to extract more bets than usual on your good hands, call down with mediocre hands, etc.

[Bill Murphy]

Button should've raised on the flop.

At least according to RussG's 'Rule of 7'.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Bill Murphy]

If 3 bet on flop, he should 4 bet.

[mikelow]

You have to be sure you can outplay your opponents before you can loosen up.

I thought I could try to beat 30-60 and up by trying to outdraw my opponents. Doesn't work....