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  #1  
Old 12-23-2005, 10:21 AM
jason1990 jason1990 is offline
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Default Was Jesus a real person?

In another thread, Riddick wrote: "And regarding the birth of Jesus, isn't it widely regarded among our intellectual superiors and other high ranking historian-types, both atheist and not, that Jesus was in fact a real person?"

Is this widely regarded as a fact? If so, by whom? What evidence is there? Should the default assumption, in the absence of evidence, be that he is a fictional/mythical character that actually never existed? Do similarities between the story of Jesus and the stories of other mythical religious figures make it less likely that any of them existed as real people?
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2005, 10:59 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

J1990,

We have those like phil153 who say he doubts Jesus was a real person. Then we have folk of David S.ís caliber who (I assume) donít waste their time on such ideas. Use Davidís theory about those smarter than you and what they think to arrive at your answer.

RJT
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2005, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

I would suggest that you read a book called 'The case for Christ' written by Lee Strobel. It's written by a journalist who investigates the evidence for Jesus.

The four gospels (matthew, mark, luke and john) are based on either direct or indirect eye witness testimony.

The fact that the year being 2005 AD, means 2005 years after the death of this 'Jesus'.

Theres a lot of supporting documents outside of the bible too, written by Josephus, a trusted historian, and Tacitus.

There is better documentation for Jesus than for the founder of any other ancient religion.
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Old 12-23-2005, 02:22 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

Yes, He IS.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2005, 03:49 PM
hashi92 hashi92 is offline
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

what about the other gospels that werent included in the bible.
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2005, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

There is significant debate still going on about whether or not Jesus really existed. The debate is far more vigerous than say whether or not evolution is real.

That said, the "Jesus never existed" camp is relatively small primarily because their best argument (so little independent information about him) doesn't prove anything.

A far more solid position is that there was a guy named Jesus who walked around modern Israel 2000 years ago but almost everything we "know" about him is more myth (as in a narrative story) than historical fact. It's perfectly possible (and arguably quite probable) that the NT stories about Jesus are based on a real person who didn't do 95% of what is attributed to him. You could then argue that although a Jesus esisted, he wasn't who most think he was and thus in a way the traditional Jesus never really existed.

Kind of like Saint Nicolas/Santa Claus or _____/Robin Hood.
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2005, 06:52 PM
Shakezula Shakezula is offline
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

"There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they because known collectively as Christ." ---Seth

Seasons Greetings, and I thought would throw that in the mix. According to the channelled material delivered by Jane/Seth, the name "Jesus" was a fairly common name back in those long-ago times.

"The concept (original sin) itself existed long before Christianityís initiation, and was told in various forms throughout the centuries and in all civilizations. On the side of consciousness, it is a tale symbolically representing the birth of the conscious mind in the species as a whole, and the emergence of self-responsibility." ---Seth

Speaking of symbolism, symbology, or whatever:

"Each of the twelve (disciples) represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self."

...inner self, in those terms, meaning the non-physical self, or the self that looks inward, or the PART OF the self that deals with non-physical realities (emotions, thoughts, etc.), the portion that does NOT deal with camouflage/physical reality.

"When Christ spoke he did so in the context of his times, using the symbolism and vocabulary that made sense to a particular people in a particular period of history, in your terms. He began with their beliefs, and using their references tried to lead them into freer realms of understanding." ---Seth

Ideas should expand, naturally. ANY idea could be considered as "fuel for the fire". Why not? Spur the mind into activity!

Then of course:

"Christianity has become, however, a tangled sorry tale, its cohesiveness largely vanished. Such a religion becomes isolated from daily life." ---Seth

The ideas were not expanded. We/they/the people stayed with the symbolism and why oh why! did we not use our intelligence to launch ourselves past the out-dated ideas used back then? I mean, come on! Who really thinks there are demons and devils, fire and brimstone, holy ghosts and spirits, floating all about? I guess one belief is as good as another, if it comes to extremes, but to have common sense and a speck of a brain, some of those past ideas are worn slap out!

"Without exception, all of the horrors connected with Christianityís name came from following the letter rather than the spirit of the law, or by insistence upon literal interpretations -- while the spiritual, imaginative concepts beneath were ignored." ---Seth

Imagination! Oh my! Who would have thunk it? Not me, but perhaps:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." ---Einstein

John Lennon might have been on to something afterall! Too bad we killed him. Oh well, live and learn. (I need a beer, the season for niceties is upon me, be cheerful and of good spirits, and have a happy...whatever. Peace out.)
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2005, 06:56 PM
hashi92 hashi92 is offline
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

the bible was a book made and edited for the church. i think its a litte biased dont you think.
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

[ QUOTE ]
You could then argue that although a Jesus esisted, he wasn't who most think he was and thus in a way the traditional Jesus never really existed.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I think. I actually agreed with something Phil said in another thread, and responded to RJT with:

I mean, I'm sure SOME guy named Jesus existed... and some of the details are probably accurate... but which ones, and how many... that's definitely questionable. And, in the end, if you don't know which details of the Biblical Jesus are true, it's hard to say that that Jesus actually existed.

So, how many of the details of Jesus have to be true for us to say that Jesus existed? For Christians, of course, he has to be God incarnate, died & raised from the dead, because if he wasn't, then their Jesus doesn't exist, and their religion is worthless.

One significant point is that most religions don't require their founders to have been real people. Their religion can still exist regardless of their founder. (Not all, but most that I know of.) Christianity is not like that -- if Jesus was not God incarnate, died & resurrected for the sins of the world, then Christianity is pointless. Confuscisim doesn't need Confusious. Buddhism doen't need Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha). Judaism doesn't need Moses or Abraham. Islaam doesn't need Mohammed. Sure, those people play a very important role in the religion -- but the religion's value isn't based on those actual people. Christianity is worthless without the actual Jesus.
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2005, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Was Jesus a real person?

What about them?
I think that the careful choice of books in the bible just says that they were putting together the new testament with care, not putting in anything anybody wrote about Jesus. The reason that they weren't allowed in the new testament was because of their obvious inconsistency with all that was known about Jesus.

That being said, there is reason to believe that the people just wrote down what they saw and did not pretty it up. There is a lot of things writtten that could be considered embarassing towards Jesus or his disciples. Yet, it was written, as they saw it happen even though that meant critiscism, ostracism and martydom.
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