A raised, multi-way pots observation.

[Kirkrrr]

First off, thanks for the replies. If everyone just agreed this thread would've been pretty worthless. I was hoping to get some discussion started. On to my idea:

I should've pre-faced my post by saying that I play strictly NL, not limit, so both the pre-flop raise and the sebsequent calls have built a pretty large pot. Not many players will fire a pot-sized bet into 3 opponents with nothing if they missed. This is entirely different from Limit, where the bet on the flop is very cheap compared to pot size. So the PFR's bet conveys a certain degree of strength. Raising with a marginal hand absent a strong read is chip-spewing, not the other way around. Once more, I'm talking about NL, where the amount of money going into the pot is far greater - your whole stack, for instance.

But let's say you still want to go ahead with the hand. We all know that the vast majority of players will check to the raiser and check-raise (not the best strategy but the most widely used one). Being next to act right after the PFR put you in the worst position possible for this hand as you're sandwiched between the PFR and two other players that called OOP and have yet to really act - the idea here being that checking to the PFR is not necessarily a show of weakness.

Okay, that's it for now.

Kirk [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[ohnonotthat]

"A checks, B checks, C raises - you call as do B and C"

- Did you call this raise out of one of the blinds or did you cold-call from the raisor's left ?

(Just curious - most of the below analysis would apply to either situation but since I assumed the latter it may seem as though I'm suggesting you act out of turn if it's actually the former).

Too vague for complex analysis but you are right about calling not being an option here with a "good but not great" hand. The only hand(s) you should call with here are draws that can only win if the make monsters and sets when the flop is truly ragged and 3-toned.

Top-pair, good kicker should be raised unless you really need to take a dump and can't wait for the hand to play out OR when you see the your opponents' cards and one or more of them has flopped a monster.

Fold in these two cases unless you're at least 90% certain you can hold it in; crapping your pants is considered bad form if you hold less than quads. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[ohnonotthat]

NL is very unforgiving of those who play "calling hands" and who then proceed to do just that - call with them.

TPTK with a bet from your right and two [potential] contestants remaining to act after you do is a troublesome hand.

I haven't played alot of NL but assuming I knew NOTHING about any of these three opponents this is still a raise or fold - with the exception of those times when you flopped a flush draw to go along with your pair. Even here, while calling is OK raising might be the better play.

As to the PFR not betting when he misses - this depends on the flop. If you called his raise with something like 9-8s and the flop came 8-4-2 he might not see this flop as a miss to A-K and he may be right; he'll have the best hand here often enough to warrant betting out at least some of the time. View it from his perspective; he raised after two others limped and you opted to call rather than re-raise; how much should this flop frighten him ? By all rights no1 with an 8 should have called so top pr shouldn't be out and wouldn't a PP 99-QQ have reraised BTF ?

[tpir90036]

There a number of reasons why what your originally wrote does not apply to NL. I am not sure why you did not mention you were talking about NL the first time around. Especailly considering that your original post reads like one about limit poker.