Chop It Up! - an essay

[CardSharpCook]

Chop it Up!

2000 people started the day, but now it is down to 4. Your stomach is boiling, your heart is pounding, and your wife is already spending the first place prize. This is more money than you've EVER played for! Even if you go out next, you STILL get $X!!! But that's only a quarter of what first place gets! It is time to talk deal.

Tournaments are structured to pay surprisingly top-heavy. Tournament directors like to be able to announce a huge 1st prize. In this Sunday's Stars $200, First gets TWENTY PERCENT! of the prize pool! 4th place still gets a huge payday, but it is only 5.6%. The difference between 4th and 1st is $100,000. It makes sense to deal. So what are the things you should remember when you get to this point?

1. How important are the stakes to you? I'm taking a day off from playing 20/40 limit and decide to enter a $20 MTT on a whim. I make the FT and get to HU. 1st pays $1000, 2nd gets $600. That's a $400 difference. To me, that is 10 big bets. No big deal. But to the guy across the table, THAT'S 400 BUCKS!! In this situation, there is no reason for me to talk deal because the stakes are not significant. What that point is depends on you and it is something you should think about before the FT starts.

2. How do you compare to your competition? If you have played a satelitte to get into this tourney, chances are you are NOT the best person at the FT. In fact, chances are you are the worst at this elite FT. Be realistic with your skill and take this into consideration when making a deal. If you suspect that your opponent is playing poorly because of the stakes, or simply isn't as good as you, be less inclinced to deal, or offer a deal that favors you.

3. What is fair? A fair deal gives something to the chair, and something to the chips. We all know that each additional chip is worth less than the one before it, and this is how this concept applies in deal-making. How much depends on the structure. If all players have less than 10BBs, then the chair is worth more than the chips. If everyone has 100BBs... How do you propose this to the table? "OK, we all make $400 (4th place prize money). So $3K is left in the prize pool. I say, we each take $300, and then chop the rest based on stack size." If blinds are high... "We all take $500 and chip chop the last $1000."

4. What is a Chip Chop? First, you determine the garunteed payday. If 4 people are left, then 4th place is garuanteed. Take that out of the prize pool. If 4th is $100, and 4 are left, take $400 out of the prize pool. Now, determine how many chips are in play. Easily done by multiplying starting stack size by # of entrants. Now divide your stack size by total # of chips. So, you have 24K chips, there is 100K chips in play, your share of the remaining prize pool is 24%. If no money is reserved for the chair, you get 24% of the pool.

5. What is a Save? A save is a chair chop, but play will continue for some portion of the prize pool. Example: We get to the final 3 of a winner-take-all SNG and there is $2K in the pool. Looking at my tiny stack I say, "How about we do a $400 save? We each take $400, play for the rest?" In a large MTT like the Stars Sunday, you might get to the final 9 and realize that a $3K save might mean some braces for little Annie, so you suggest, "How about we take 18K off of first, 6K off of 2nd, and do a $3K Save right now?" Mention little Annie's crooked teeth, too.

6. How do I make the best deal for my stack size? If you are chip leader, and can get the others to agree to a Chip Chop, you've made an awesome deal. If you are low stack and get the others to agree to a 50/50 Chip/Chair deal, you've made an awesome deal. If you are a low stack, do not agree to a deal that doesn't take the Chair into consideration. In fact, the small stack usually has the most power in chop discussions. A stubborn short stack can usually get the bigger stacks to make concessions amoung themselves. "look, all I'm asking for is another 2K. I don't care where it comes from, but I need another 2K before I agree." The big stacks are looking at a huge pay day that could easily evaporate if they get KK vs. AA. The less you have to lose, the more power you have in ANY negotiations.

7. Pride. This is a huge factor in chop considerations. Your pride and their pride. You do not wish to offend anyone. If you know that your skill is so far above the others at the table that a "fair" deal would not appear fair to them, do not even talk about a deal. You must let others retain pride. It is the only way you will reach any deal. The most annoying form of pride is the Chip leader who keeps saying, "but I'm the chip leader!!!" This guy will make it difficult to get a partial chair chop, but you got to keep working on him, get others to help explain your arguement. Just be aware of Pride at FT discussions.

8. How bad would it hurt if you lost? Was watching a buddy in a PCA DS and he wins a huge pot vs. #2, knocking him out of the tourney. Now he is HU with 12X 2nd place chips. We both know that the other guy is a little fishy. However, 1st gets a 12K package, 2nd gets 1K. My friend has had some terrible luck in these before. If he were to somehow lose this, it would be devastating. So I say, "offer him $500, accept $1K." We both KNOW that Jim has a 12:1 advantage AND that Jim is much better than his opponent, but to somehow find a way to lose this would be HORRIBLE! A 11K swing in payday and the psycological blow of blowing a 12:1 advantage to bubble out of yet another PCA.

The most important consideration in Chop discussions is securing a big win. Remember that. Use these guidelines to help you understand what a fair deal is, and then try to use it to secure a slightly unfair deal in your favor.

CSC


Note: If I've left out any issues, let me know.

[UncleSalty]

This is gold and belongs in the FAQ when it emerges past "mini" status.

Thank you.

[TwistedEcho]

great post, agreed it needs FAQing

Excellent post CSC, thanks for this.

THAT'S 400 BUCKS!! Bump to the first page.

[LLKOOLK1]

awesome post CSC, this is a subject that is always critisized on this site, but never really discussed in its entirety....thanks and keep up the useful material...
-LL

nice. CSC rocks!

[mikeymer]

Great post, something I can actually use.

[Lloyd]

I'm bumping this to get some more feedback and comments from others experienced in this area. Then I'll go ahead and add it to the anthology.

[usmfan]

I would suggest adding something about the mechanics of actually getting support there in online MTTs. Some of us (me too, until just recently) have never had to stop the action to iron out the details. The only place I'm familiar with is Stars. People need to be warned that even if everyone agrees, it will take a while for support to get there. What are the dangers in trading blinds by agreement until they arrive?

Otherwise, a great primer on chops.