Set of 2's vs. unknown

[GoCubsGo]

I have no reads on my opponent. I have $97 and he covers me.

Crypto 6 max 100NL

I am dealt 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: $4.50 J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks, UTG bets $3, I raise to $9, button folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: $22.50 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG checks, hero checks.

River: $22.50 Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG bets $15, hero raises to $40, UTG calls.

I'm not sure about the turn check. UTG's check kind of surprised me and I figured he was either going to check/fold or check raise me all in with a made flush. I figured by checking behind I'll still lose to the flush but possibly get some more value out of KQ or AQ type hand. What do you think? Played well or missed value?

[Morrek]

I play it exactly like this except I raise more on flop and more on river.
I check behind turn to catch my house, and it worked out well for you.

I raise more on the river, checking behind the turn isn't a bad play IMO.

The reason for a larger raise is the only hands that'll call a raise are hands that'll pay off a bigger raise. If he has a bigger boat, he's reraising you all-in and you have to pay it off, so a smaller bet isn't saving you anything if you're beat.

[lautzutao]

You think Hero was behind on the turn? I guess a c/r would be good here if I'm villian and have a flush...but given no reads on my opponent I'm betting this turn for value and assuming my opponent isn't that savvy. You're giving somebody with 1 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] a free card to beat you here.

Now, checking the turn to induce a bluff on the river is an interesting idea here, but still a bit risky and you'd need information on villian to attempt something like that.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
You're giving somebody with 1 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] a free card to beat you here.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my thought, and I was about to post my surprise that no one had yet considered this.

If you get trapped for a check-raise by a flush, more power to her. But more often you'll be giving a free card to a single spade to beat you.

I like this turn check. He probably folds alot of hands that you beat if you pound it, but will pay off on the river after showing weakness. It also allows you to get a cheap showdown on the river if he has a flush.

[yvesaint]

i dont like the turn check at all

4th spade falls, he bets, you punch yourself
4th spade falls, he checks, you bet, he check-raises, you punch yourself
4th spade falls, he checks, you check, he shows KQo no spades, you punch yourself

blank non-pairing falls, he bets, you call, he shows KQo you punch yourself
blank non-pairing falls, he bets, you raise, he pushes, you punch yourself
blank non-pairing falls, he checks, you bet, he check-raises, you punch yourself
blank non-pairing falls, he checks, you bet, he calls and shows KQo and you lose value

now think of this

you bet the turn, he check-raises, you can still call and stack him if it pairs, or get away cheaply if it doesnt

you bet the turn, he calls, youre in position to do whatever on the river - call a weak bet on a 4th spade, let it go to a strong bet on a 4th spade, or value bet a blank, or even check behind THEN rather than on the turn

def bet the turn

[Finite_Risk]

[ QUOTE ]
4th spade falls, he bets, you punch yourself
4th spade falls, he checks, you bet, he check-raises, you punch yourself
4th spade falls, he checks, you check, he shows KQo no spades, you punch yourself

blank non-pairing falls, he bets, you call, he shows KQo you punch yourself
blank non-pairing falls, he bets, you raise, he pushes, you punch yourself
blank non-pairing falls, he checks, you bet, he check-raises, you punch yourself
blank non-pairing falls, he checks, you bet, he calls and shows KQo and you lose value


[/ QUOTE ]

Great Post

[Morrek]

or, river pairs the board, he bets you raise(possibly allin) and he calls with his "slowplayed" flush
also, blank comes and you gain value from his KQo that you wouldn't have gotten on a turn bet most likely.. How many people call all three streets with TPGK on 3flush-board anyway? (that's the only way you're going to make more than turn check river bet, which is alot more likely to be called by KQo)

[ QUOTE ]
you bet the turn, he check-raises, you can still call and stack him if it pairs, or get away cheaply if it doesnt


[/ QUOTE ]
depends how much room you have left to work on after the checkraise ofcourse, and you lose alot more when behind here if it doesn't pair. And as I said earlier in the post I don't think you get much more value out of KQo unless the guy is a major calling station in which case bet away ofcourse, but that's far from normal play IMO


edit: any kind of read ofcourse helps alot here, does he bet draws(or semi bluff in general)? if no bet away on the turn

[4_2_it]

Bet $15 on the turn. No reason to give free cards or make a fancy play. You can always check down the river.