pocket pairs HU

gaming_mouse · #1 10-19-2005, 01:40 PM

Villain unknown.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises.

Hero's plan?

asofel · #2 10-19-2005, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain unknown.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises.

Hero's plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

This situation is one that I often find trouble with, so i'd like to go through my thoughts and see how offbase I might be.

You have 3 options:

1. 3-bet
2. call
3. fold

starting with #1...often it seems that villain either calls,then check calls down with a weak hand that is still ahead of yours and you lose bets...or he calls and check-raises you on the turn, making you pay a few more bets when often behind. Hence I don't like this...

#2. With a call here and a rag on the turn I'd feel like checking makes the most sense as a donkbet doesn't do you much good in my experience. This also gives you a chances to see if any of your backdoor outs are going to come in. Also, for metagame reasons, i really don't like folding to a raise on the flop. If the turn gives you more outs for the river, then check call again? If the turn bricks do you give up here? I think this depends on the opponent but times when I check call down I'm not often ahead.

#3. I don't like folding here. I think there're too many reasons to at least call and see the turn, and folding o flop raises makes you look weak and almost invites the villain to play back at your flop bets harder.

So, I often would call this, and try to evaluate my chances given the turn. This feels somewhat passive and weak, but I don't think you can be much stronger in these cases and being too weak is definitely not good as well...

Thoughts? I'm really curious as to others lines in situations like this...

gaming_mouse · #3 10-19-2005, 06:55 PM

more comments? is this really that easy?

Subfallen · #4 10-19-2005, 07:05 PM

There's no cut-and-dry answer. One thought is that if Villain likes to semi-bluff but won't pure-bluff, you should 3-bet, check behind turn, and fold to a river bet unimproved. (Folding to a flop cap or turn bet obviously.)

Argus · #5 10-19-2005, 07:07 PM

Although villain is unknown, he did open-limp in the SB. What do you think he's check/raising you with after you raise preflop and bet the flop? Is he check/raising a flush draw? Ace-high? I think it's a pair. You have very few outs if ahead, villain almost certainly has 6, and possibly 15 outs if he's behind, and you don't know which is which. In a small pot like this I suggest a fold.

gaming_mouse · #6 10-19-2005, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Although villain is unknown, he did open-limp in the SB. What do you think he's check/raising you with after you raise preflop and bet the flop? Is he check/raising a flush draw? Ace-high? I think it's a pair. You have very few outs if ahead, villain almost certainly has 6, and possibly 15 outs if he's behind, and you don't know which is which. In a small pot like this I suggest a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think i agree with you basically.

the thing is, c/raising with a flush draw here is entirely possible, and since he limped in SB, there are a ton of flush draw hands he could have. but your sonsiderations may outweigh this fact nonetheless.

gaming_mouse · #7 10-19-2005, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There's no cut-and-dry answer. One thought is that if Villain likes to semi-bluff but won't pure-bluff, you should 3-bet, check behind turn, and fold to a river bet unimproved. (Folding to a flop cap or turn bet obviously.)

[/ QUOTE ]

subfallen,

i dont understand this at all. if we check behind on the turn, many oppos are betting any river.

Subfallen · #8 10-19-2005, 07:15 PM

Well yeah it's a special case. For some reason I find lots of opponents like this in my games though.

wowacedude · #9 10-19-2005, 07:29 PM

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 38.5354 % 38.31% 00.23% { 3d3s }
Hand 2: 61.4646 % 61.24% 00.23% { all diamond combos }

Give me a more specific hand range if you want.

Stefan_K · #10 10-19-2005, 07:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Although villain is unknown, he did open-limp in the SB. What do you think he's check/raising you with after you raise preflop and bet the flop? Is he check/raising a flush draw? Ace-high? I think it's a pair. You have very few outs if ahead, villain almost certainly has 6, and possibly 15 outs if he's behind, and you don't know which is which. In a small pot like this I suggest a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]