Patience - Q9s - Hand Quiz - Don't Cheat - Page 3

POKhER · #21 10-08-2005, 10:49 AM

How did UTG Check preflop ? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Raise, bet, freecard, Raise(Due to his actions when he had 78 and bet!)

ABAC

Fantam · #22 10-08-2005, 10:50 AM

CAAA.

I dont mind letting BB in preflop as my hand does not have particularly high card strength, but does have drawing potential. So I am happy to see a multiway hand, which can win me a big pot if I connect well with the flop.

I am not sure that betting the flop will buy a free turn card with the loose SB and UTG, which is why I check.

I dont like the idea of risking being 3-bet on the turn, when my hand has a lot of outs, so I prefer to check.

As SB and UTG are both very loose, either one of them could easily have a 6, so I favour a call.

#23 10-08-2005, 10:52 AM

My reasoning for checking the turn: We have lots of outs to improve to what will probably be the best hand. However, if we don't hit any of them, we're not gonna win with Queen high.

If we bet the turn, they will not both fold. Perhaps neither will fold, perhaps just the one with the worse hand. Then they'll check to us on the river.

By checking the turn, we encourage them to bet to us on the river, which means if we make our hand we can raise and they'll call. If we miss the river, we can just fold.

#24 10-08-2005, 11:08 AM

Why did most of you just call the river bet? UTG clearly has nothing, the only one you have to worry about is SB. He doesn't have 99, 97, or 98, or any high pocket pair, or he'd have bet on the flop or turn. That leaves any 6, 95, A9, and K9 which is beating you, and everything else which you are beating. SB would have likely bet this river with any pair, as your turn check said, "just kidding about that flop bet, I really have nothing".

Raise.

RatFink · #25 10-08-2005, 11:17 AM

For those that decide to bet the turn, are we strong enough with these outs on a paired board to continue if check-raised given reads?

sean c · #26 10-08-2005, 11:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For those that decide to bet the turn, are we strong enough with these outs on a paired board to continue if check-raised given reads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but betting the turn is wrong IMO.

Redd · #27 10-08-2005, 12:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For those that decide to bet the turn, are we strong enough with these outs on a paired board to continue if check-raised given reads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, we are, and this is one of the main reasons why checking is better: because we need to pay off a check-raise.

milesdyson · #28 10-08-2005, 01:26 PM

Well here's how I played the hand, and how I scored the choices. I thought the river was a raise.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG checks, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG (poster) calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises ...

QUESTION #1: What do you do preflop?

A: Raise. Your hand is pretty good, you have position, BB is tight and will fold, and the others are loose, bad postflop players. They will be more inclined to make bad calls if you hit, since they expect you to be betting regardless of what you have. You will be paid off handsomely postflop if you make a hand.
(8 points - you have a good chance of getting BB's dead money in the pot, and it's true that the other players will be more likely to pay you off postflop since you raised preflop with a hand that won't "look like" it hit the board)

B: Fold. SB and UTG are going to call anyway. You won't be able to make them fold postflop ever by raising, and open limping on the button is forbidden.
(1 point - this really is too much hand to fold here, on the button)

C: Open limp. SB and UTG are going to call your raise anyway, and none of the 3 players left to act raise very often, but this is too much hand to fold in position against these donkeys.
(5 points - although open limping is usually frowned upon, this time it wouldn't be terrible. This hand is building up to be ideal, though. If we raise, we have a strong hand against 2 really bad players, and we have the button)
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QUESTION #2: You raise preflop. Only BB folds, as expected. (6 SB) - Flop comes 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB checks, UTG checks. What do you do?

A: Check. You have two overcards, backdoor flush draw and crappy backdoor straight draw. Let's see a free turn.
(4 points - either of these guys have the capability to bet a very weak hand on the turn if we check through on the flop. We will be folding the turn very often because of this)

B: Bet. This is a good flop for us, and though they both will probably call, we can take a free turn card if we choose. There is also a slight chance we pick up the pot.
(7 points - we almost always bet the flop after raising preflop anyway, and in this hand especially, that free turn card could really be worth something)
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QUESTION #3: You bet the flop. SB calls, UTG calls. (4.5 BB) - Turn comes 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB checks, UTG checks. What do you do?

A: Check. Take the free card with 15+ outs. Betting would be better with As9s because we'd have the best hand more often.
(9 points - Standard checking through with outs, only exaggerated by the fact that if you chose to semibluff here, you really have no chance to fold out the field)

B: Bet. We have so many outs, and they love to call. Betting this is betting for value, even on the turn.
(1 point - it might BARELY squeak through as "betting for value," but that is if you have 16+ outs. We already know SB to lead on the river with very weak hands from the example in the hand read. This will set up the river very nicely if we do hit, since UTG might, scratch that, will call between us)
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QUESTION #4: You check the turn. (4.5 BB) - River comes 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB bets, UTG calls. What do you do?

A: Call. Any 6 makes him a straight, and he could have been slowplaying a flopped 8 or better.
(6 points - there's some chance that he could have a 6/8 or a better 9 here, and if we raise we might get 3-bet)

B: Fold. We can not overcall this hand. We only have a pair and weak kicker on a 4-straight board.
(0 points - there are too many hands that SB could bet here that we beat. UTG is almost a nonfactor when he calls the river)

C: Raise. He would bet a 5, a 7, or a weaker 9 here. We have UTG caught in the middle and as long as SB doesn't 3-bet, UTG will call. This is a value raise.
(8 points - there are many more 5x, 7x, 9x hands that we can beat here than there are 8x/6x/better 9x hands. Add to that the fact that you've seen UTG be the second overcaller with bottom pair on the river, and this looks more like a value raise)

RatFink · #29 10-08-2005, 01:27 PM

I chose check for that reason, but was curious about it from those voting to bet turn.

Greg J · #30 10-08-2005, 01:39 PM

I largely agree with your assessments. I had thought just calling the river was best, but you made the case for a raise fairly convincing. I dig it.

This was a good post -- it made me think.

EDIT: How many points for properly checking the turn? You still have time to edit and fix it.

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