Calling down with Ace high

[cartman]

I find myself in this position a lot and I feel like it may be a leak of mine.

Villain has TAG (attempt to steal blind in the 30's) stats and is extremely aggressive postflop and prone to overplaying everything. In a situation like this he is practically guaranteed to raise either the flop or the turn and bet the rest of the way often including the river regardless of his cards. He will very rarely fold prior to the river if I keep firing.


SCENARIO 1 (He raises the flop)

PREFLOP
Villain open-raises in the CO or the Button, Hero 3-bets in the SB with a big Ace (AT+) and no hearts.

FLOP: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero?

<font color="blue">What is Hero's plan for the rest of the hand?</font> (I usually call down here unimproved unless two broadway cards hit or two more hearts hit)



SCENARIO 2 (He calls the flop)

FLOP: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, Villain calls.

<font color="blue">What is Hero's plan for the rest of the hand?</font>(I typically go into check and call mode here as well, calling down unimproved unless two broadway cards or two more hearts hit).


<font color="blue">What do you guys think of my default plan in each scenario?</font>


Thanks,
Cartman

What are your plans for both scenarios if an ace or ten hits the turn?

[MrWookie47]

I want to add a second question. How small does your A get before your plans start changing?

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]
What are your plans for both scenarios if an ace or ten hits the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean when I have specifically AT:

In scenario 1, I would probably check and call the turn then donkbet the river if either A or a T hits.

In scenario 2, I would definitely bet the turn and then probably call a raise and donkbet the river if either an A or a T hits.

For what it's worth, I have no idea if these lines are good or not.

Cartman

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]
I want to add a second question. How small does your A get before your plans start changing?

[/ QUOTE ]

AT is about the minimum I call down with unimproved. An exception might be when a draw keeps me in until the river and the board stays pretty innocent looking. I will sometimes call a river bet with any Ace in this spot.

Cartman

[MrWookie47]

Duly noted. I've been getting wrecked in spots like this lately by 60/40/2-ish maniacs.

[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth, I have no idea if these lines are good or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL....me neither.

This is why we don't much make money from TAGs. They are often unpredictable and our decisions can easily (and correctly so) go both ways.

[___1___]

cartman,

Scenario 1:

I think, even for this specific situation, hero's plan has to differ from hand to hand. Very often I'll play as you would and call villian's flop raise and call down. I'll usually do that early in a session just b/c it will discourage villian from betting with pure air if he knows I'm willing to call down with A-high. If the same scenario comes up again then I might call the flop raise call the turn and fold to a river bet just b/c he's unlikely to be betting the river with 78 since he's seen me call down with A-high. Really, it's just one big balancing act. You can't really say there's a right and wrong way to play this, but I'm sure there are some optimal ways to play it over the course of, say, 8 scenarios depending on the play of prior hands.

Scenario 2:

In this scenario I will almost always bet the turn and decide from there whether I'm check/calling or check/folding the river unimproved. Again its a balancing act and no default play is really right or wrong.

___1___

[pyroponic]

[ QUOTE ]
What are your plans for both scenarios if an ace or ten hits the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

This really doesn't matter I don't think, since we will miss with our big aces so much. The same thing goes for raising with decent aces from LP, a lot of the time I find myself betting the flop, checking the turn, and a lot of the times calling the river UI if the board isn't too bad. But the thing is by not betting the turn here, you allow your opponent to correctly a lot of the times so maybe betting the turn most of the time UI is correct? I find myself losing on the river almost everytime UI, but then again if I bet the turn I can almost see the check/raise coming all the time. Opinions?

[paco]

Regarding being in position, you must bet the turn against an opponent who will frequently peel with nothing or who you put on a draw. Sooo many times you are ahead with your big ace. Strongarm turn and check river UI. If you check the turn it puts you in a tough position when they bet the river, especially if a draw completes/other scare card comes. The exception to this is when you're against a habitual turn checkraise bluffer. In this case, it is worth giving a free card (not as dangerous heads up if you are ahead) to make sure and not get bluffed off best hand.
Yeah, it sucks being C/Red on the turn, but against a predictable opponent it means you're beat.

Sometimes its just the way you run that you end up being way behind and c/r'ed on the turn a few times in a row and it makes you gunshy. You still need to protect your hand and keep the lead on the turn when you're likely ahead.