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Old 08-26-2005, 05:19 PM
MuckJagger MuckJagger is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and the US Government (a few facts)

Allegory lost in 2000, and it's about time you liberals get used to the fact.
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  #32  
Old 08-26-2005, 05:37 PM
Exsubmariner Exsubmariner is offline
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Default Re: Aliens and the US Government (a few facts)

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First, politics is more than a game played by Machiavellian puppeteers whose only interest is to pull strings to get access to resources. There's a whole lot of sincerity to right-wing chest thumping – take this forum for example: posters on this board clearly don’t expect to gain anything from calling liberals whiny bitches other than for some level of personal satisfaction.

Anyone who has ever worked in politics knows there are a lot of people who put their nose to the grindstone fighting political battles when their personal gain (in regards to resources gained) are quite small. I’ve worked on campaigns where volunteers put in 20 or 30+ hours a week for a candidate, for months on end, where their personal gain was absolutely nothing. Maybe they were just part of some conspiracy on behalf of some power hungry politician, who duped them into sacrificing their time and energy. Or maybe there are things that matter to political actors other than just gathering resources. You might not agree with the Herbert quote you provided, but I think he's close to the mark when he says that language can matter to people more than wealth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no, I agree with Herbert completely. I think what he pointed out about government and power in language was very very astute. So much so I don't even think I fully understand it. I've been saying all along that people play the game for different reasons. Poker, for example, is played for pleasure by some, if you can believe it, money by others and still others, myself included, play, it at least in part, for the sense of accomplishment achieved by winning. It isn't too hard to imagine that others play the game of politics because they are emotionally invested in giving handouts to people who they think are incapable of producing for themselves, for example. Or because they really feel sad when they see trees cut down, or they feel sorry for little baby seals who get clubbed in the head.

[ QUOTE ]
That is to say, no matter how much we might want to make politics like poker (just some game where everyone’s out to fleece someone else out of something) – it’s not. People have emotions invested in politics – emotions that can’t easily be explained away by the motivation to grab as many resources as possible. And I’m quite convinced the politics of anxious masculinity is one of them – that is to say, I think the right thrives on the insecurities of the modern male, whose gender role has been in flux for the better part of 40 years (if not longer – much longer; better historians than I can possibly cite evidence of gender roles being in constant flux). And I don't think we can explain those insecurities (nor the wish to resolve them) through account which center around competition for resources.

I think the consequences of such a statement could be alarming for the right. Might it be that right-wing positions on drilling for oil in ANWAR, defense spending, affirmative action, welfare, etc. – aren’t driven by anything more substantive than wanting to be the toughest SOB around?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, maybe it could also be said that the left's agenda could be driven by a desire to be the biggest pussies around and purely motivated by lack of testicles. The consequences of which could be really alarming for them.

Ok...shifting back down from liberal bashing, which I just got a big chest thumping masculine kick out of (and did it for no other reason what so ever)....

It could be that drilling in ANWAR, defense spending, and other right wing policies achieving the effect of being the biggest badest chest thumping masculine country around is really driven purely by self interest because history has proven over and over that the best thing to be is the biggest badest richest smartest chest thumper around. Is that an effect of male insecurity? Maybe. Whatever the cause it is purely biologically driven and that can't be changed. Period.

If you think pointing out simple masculine drive or male insecurity to the right as their sole motivation is going to be an Earth shaking revelation that will cause sudden shrinking balls and an identity crisis, I say you are sadly mistaken. Masculine chest thumpers belittle each others masculinity and smarts all the time, their political rivals engaging in the same behaviour is hardly going to change their political ideaology.

One thing is for sure, the masculine chest thumping political demographic play the game to win. What is really fascinating to me, is to watch people who play the political game because they are emotionally invested, not resource driven, play the game to win for their causes. I should say entertaining more than fascinating. Really, though, I think that people who are not owners and stake holders doing so puts a real strain on the functioning of the political process in this country. There are a whole generation of people who have become a political class who engage in politics as an end unto itself and I think that is when things start to deteriorate. It happened in Rome. A bunch of rich bored Romans started playing politics for the sake of playing politics and weakened their political system so much it was unable to stave off many other factors that lead to the collapse. I honestly feel that is a very real danger in modern America.

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