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  #21  
Old 05-13-2005, 05:23 AM
Broken Glass Can Broken Glass Can is offline
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[ QUOTE ]

Now, I just hope they dont change the rules, at least not in this way.

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You do realize the GOP doesn't want to change the rules either. The Democrats are forcing them to. Why don't you ask your buddies to act responsibly on nominees? Then we can preserve the rules.

The Democrats play brinkmanship, and then complain when they don't get their way.

Newsflash: Americans elected a GOP Senate. Get over it.
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  #22  
Old 05-13-2005, 05:23 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Hagel for Prez in 2008! I might even vote for him -- back to the GOP for me.

He is one of the reason that Frist will likely (hopefully?!) back down from the pulling the nuclear trigger.
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2005, 05:39 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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The Democrats play brinkmanship

Is this new in politics or just a Democrat thing?

If Frist truly believes that the Nuclear Option is best for the country he should pust that. If he was pushing it for a short term fix, then SHAME ON HIM.

If the Nuclear Option was the right thing for the senate, then getting a few judges past the Democrats should come far behind doing the right thing. Specially as with the Nuke Option in place he could get them all in.

So, was he willing to put something dangerous in place that he did not believe in so that he could suck up to Bush?

If he believes the rules are bad then why back down? If he thinks that the rules as they are are right for America then why the drama, let the rules work the way they were intended.

Two faced, unprincipled, Frist.
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  #24  
Old 05-13-2005, 06:00 AM
Broken Glass Can Broken Glass Can is offline
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The Nuclear option has been used before. It was used to change the filibuster rules in the past by Bob Byrd.

You make a mistake by assuming that using it again will wipe the filibuster away. It will only restore the nominee process to what is always has been, a vote on the nominee once released by committee.

There are a lot of rules that can shut down the US Senate. It operates only because of the convention of agreeing to allow work to continue after adequate debate (it operates mostly on unanimous consent (UC) - adopting whatever short term rules agreed upon).

I'm serious when I tell you that the Democrats refusing to agree to floor procedures under UC is very unusual. Failing an agreement, a rules battle is inevitable, that is just the way the Senate has been set up to operate.

The "nuclear option" is just a fancy name for what happens whenever the UC operation of the Senate falls apart. It is not unusual and not at all dramatic except in the rhetoric.

If you follow the way the Senate operates closely, you would know this is no big deal. It's been used before several times. The majority always prevails eventually, read the history of the Senate and you will understand this.
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  #25  
Old 05-13-2005, 06:04 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Cool, so the Senate has been operating as intended over the past weeks, months, years. Just as I thought.

Carry on.
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  #26  
Old 05-13-2005, 06:08 AM
Broken Glass Can Broken Glass Can is offline
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[ QUOTE ]
Cool, so the Senate has been operating as intended over the past weeks, months, years. Just as I thought.

Carry on.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the day they implement the nuclear option, it will be just like any of the other times too. Like always.
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  #27  
Old 05-13-2005, 06:21 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Yep, right up there with when they amended the constitution so the Feds could collect taxes. Yet another turn for the worse.

Awaiting your counter bicker.
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  #28  
Old 05-13-2005, 12:12 PM
jaxmike jaxmike is offline
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[ QUOTE ]
Because I recognize that the filibuster is a break against a runaway majority.

[/ QUOTE ]

Appointing minority judges to higher positions is a runaway majority? You make an arbitrary statement here, yet what does it mean? The filibuster is also intended to FORCE dialogue on a topic, yet in this case its being used to RESTRICT dialogue.

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I also recognize that we are moving towards a system where the executive has more power than the other branches and that this is dangerous.

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Agreed.

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Take the nominiations being sent up for renomination -- the senate rejected the nominees following the rules in place, the president insists on further polarization of the body politic by resubmitting the nominations, and then gets his sycophancts to change the rules to ensure passage.

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That is not at all the case. The judges being filibustered have not been rejected because they haven't even been allowed a vote.

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The consititution does not address, as far as I know, what kind of majority the senate needs to exercise its role.

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There are specific cases in the Constitution where it demands a supermajority to pass. Otherwise, its a simple majority. At least that has been the practice until these rogue Senators came along. Interesting note, Robert "KKK" Byrd has used loopholes in Senate rules to break filibusters with a simple majority in the past when he was the Democratic leader of the Senate...

[ QUOTE ]
I do see that the role of the senate on nominations is less about advice and consent and more about pushing the President's appointments.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that they are there to either confirm or reject his appointments. Traditionally appointments are confirmed in MOST cases because its granted that the President should have control over his own administration. However, they are certainly there to vote on the appoinments.
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  #29  
Old 05-13-2005, 12:13 PM
jaxmike jaxmike is offline
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Default Re: Writes a storm, though

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is the first thing I did in my post.

[/ QUOTE ]

They already warned you he can't read.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you weren't so stupid you would have understood what I wrote. My point was that I wanted him to admit to it. And then pointed out that he did so. You idiot.
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  #30  
Old 05-13-2005, 05:48 PM
Dead Dead is offline
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It's important to point out that George Mitchell is on record as saying that when he was Senate majority leader, he was encouraged to use the nuclear option, but he declined, saying that it would wreak havoc on the collegial atmosphere of the U.S. Senate.
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