Spidey Sense

Wayfare · #1 05-03-2005, 12:26 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) converter

MP ($187.15)
Button ($58.2)
SB ($119.15)
Hero ($100)
UTG ($39)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $4, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls $4, UTG folds.

Turn: ($13) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $8, MP calls $8.

River: ($29) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $18, MP raises to $45, Hero calls $27.

Final Pot: $119

DrPublo · #2 05-03-2005, 12:28 AM

Are you calling the river hoping for the win or hoping for the chop? If it's the latter you should not be in this pot.

The Doc

DoomSlice · #3 05-03-2005, 12:30 AM

I usually toss this or raise on the flop. I like the turn, don't like the river... I check here and call a reasonable bet.

Wayfare · #4 05-03-2005, 12:30 AM

This hand is so obviously misplayed I just needed to post it to get it out of my system.

However, the question is do you bet the river as a blocker at all?

DoomSlice · #5 05-03-2005, 12:35 AM

Why put a blocker? Any Q is going to raise you, and most Aces will be checking through or making a value bet.

EverettKings · #6 05-03-2005, 12:38 AM

Um, unless you have some big reads which you haven't listed here, I disagree heavily with this line.

I would probably fold to the initial flop bet, though I don't hate calling and leading the turn. I don't see him pure bluffing that flop into 4 other players (even though three checked), though he could be semi bluffing spades (not the As draw obviously) or maybe testing the waters with KQ. In any case, you're either slightly ahead or far behind, and you're not likely to get paid off with a better hand.

If you call, and lead the turn as you did, you'll get called a lot more often than you'd like. It's hard to tell if a draw, better Ace, set, or Queen is playing with you here. Basically, you gain very little information about his hand, and it's hard to continue. I would have checked the turn, and considered folding to a bet. I'd be hoping that he would check behind.

By the river I would check and maybe call, but you're almost definitely beat when you got raised. I don't know what you expect him to turn over.

I just see this hand as overplayed in many ways.

-Kings

EverettKings · #7 05-03-2005, 12:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]

This hand is so obviously misplayed I just needed to post it to get it out of my system.

However, the question is do you bet the river as a blocker at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, if you check he is very unlikely to bet more than $18 whether he has you beat or not. Don't see a blocker bet achieving much here.

-Kings

Wayfare · #8 05-03-2005, 12:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why put a blocker? Any Q is going to raise you, and most Aces will be checking through or making a value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most aces will not be checking this through. I will see a pot sized bet from a lot of stuff, included missed spade draws.

Wayfare · #9 05-03-2005, 12:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Um, unless you have some big reads which you haven't listed here, I disagree heavily with this line.

I would probably fold to the initial flop bet, though I don't hate calling and leading the turn. I don't see him pure bluffing that flop into 4 other players (even though three checked), though he could be semi bluffing spades (not the As draw obviously) or maybe testing the waters with KQ. In any case, you're either slightly ahead or far behind, and you're not likely to get paid off with a better hand.

If you call, and lead the turn as you did, you'll get called a lot more often than you'd like. It's hard to tell if a draw, better Ace, set, or Queen is playing with you here. Basically, you gain very little information about his hand, and it's hard to continue. I would have checked the turn, and considered folding to a bet. I'd be hoping that he would check behind.

By the river I would check and maybe call, but you're almost definitely beat when you got raised. I don't know what you expect him to turn over.

I just see this hand as overplayed in many ways.

-Kings

[/ QUOTE ]

You are definately right that this is overplayed. However, when he cold calls the turn what do you put him on? I do not put him on a queen. I put him on an ace / mediocre kicker or spade draw. The former will likely just call to split the pot, and the latter will fold.

However, when he raises me, I should be 99% sure I am crushed.

EverettKings · #10 05-03-2005, 12:45 AM

When you call his flop bet and lead the turn, it is confusing. And when Party Poker players get confused, they call. KQ and spades will call here far more than they should, and you can't tell if your out-of-place bet slowed them down with a good hand or confused them into calling with a mediocre one.

Best to just not put yourself in these spots, and get out early.

-Kings