Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Topics > Science, Math, and Philosophy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12-20-2005, 01:47 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

This is unbelievable. Have you actually read this link at all? Here's a quick summary for anyone that missed it:

All of the diverse studies show that Asian > White >> Black on the measures of:

1. IQ
2. Test scores including school results, GRE, SAT, etc
3. Brain Size
4. Reaction Time (which the authors conclude is due to neurological differences in the Asian/White comparison)

In addition, I will add:

5. Highly advanced cultures and technical achievements, both in modern times and ancient history.
6. Contributions to science, literature, philosophy, etc, both in modern times and ancient history (though Whites > Asians on this in modern times, but not by much)
7. Attendance of elite universities
8. Representation in professions requiring intelligence.

These results cross cultural and economic boundaries, and the borders of countries. 5 & 6 span millenia.

Please, have a look at the graphs for each of these traits, the actual test results of each race, and the diagrams of skull shape. Isn't it obvious what's going on here?

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should look in greater detail instead of googling for ten mninutes

[/ QUOTE ]
I have been reading about this for a couple of years. Wikipedia just provided a convenient and authorative source with references to much of the information.

[ QUOTE ]
There are problems with some of the studies

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, there are. But look at the trends, look at the diversity of the studies and test scores; look at the complete lack of contradictory evidence. Even though the degree of difference may vary from test to test and study to study, the trend is always the same. Is there ANY test of ANY mental ability where Black > White > Asian? No. It's always the other way around, regardless of the test, regardless of country or socioeconomic status. What does that tell you?
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:06 PM
Rduke55 Rduke55 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 15
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
I have been reading about this for a couple of years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Where? Wikipedia, Scientific American, and other pop science reviews? I'm trying not to insult magazines like SA - I like them a lot - but you can't have a lot of this argument if those are your only sources. For example, you seemed to miss the entire Peters - Rushton (and others that spawned off because of it) debate in the 90's.
You may read on it while you're on the can or drinking at the Klan meeting but this stuff is my career. Look at some original research.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:30 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
Really? Where? Wikipedia, Scientific American, and other pop science reviews? I'm trying not to insult magazines like SA - I like them a lot - but you can't have a lot of this argument if those are your only sources. For example, you seemed to miss the entire Peters - Rushton (and others that spawned off because of it) debate in the 90's.
You may read on it while you're on the can or drinking at the Klan meeting but this stuff is my career. Look at some original research.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read New Scientist and the New York Times. Most of my basic understanding comes from there. I have read some of the Peters-Rushton letters (which are over a decade old BTW), and they're the typical psychology journal [censored] - each side attacking the results and conclusions of the other until further research is the only way to settle the dispute. Well, further research has been done. Multiple times.

The results speak for themselves. Did you even read the points in my post (or the Wikipedia article - FULLY REFERENCED WITH LINKS TO THE ORIGINAL RESEARCH), or did you instead decide to attack my credibility and sources without addressing any of my (very valid) points? If this is your career, I hope this isn't an example of how you conduct yourself in your teaching or debates.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:34 PM
RJT RJT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 111
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

There are different theories on who wrote each Gospel and in what order they were “written”. They were not written by men named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. In fact, they all probably have co-writers so to speak. One "author" of Matthew and Luke is commonly known as Q; but isn’t even a person at all. Q is rather a source “quelle”.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:53 PM
Rduke55 Rduke55 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 15
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

Are you kidding with the "decade old" statement? Some of the problems with the research (design and statistics to name two) haven't changed that much since then. And you read the letters? Did you notice the articles they were talking about? And what further research have you seen since then? There's only been a handful of studies, most of which deal with either gender differences, handedness, or one that I can recall using twins.
Do you know how the brain works? Anything on brain development? Brain evolution? Besides the problems with measuring brains size, etc. if you did know anything about these subjects you'd see how strange it is to use a measure like overall brain size for determining these things (that's why there aren't as many studies) and you'd probably have a better appreciation for the role epigenetic factors (nutrition, etc.) play in not only brain size but also intelligence, etc.

You are basically taking soundbites from popular media that support your point. All I'm doing is pointing out that that's useless for debate on a subject like this. Luckily the funding agencies and scientific journals don't weigh my
findings against a 2 page article in the NYT.

Weak crack on me too.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:59 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
They breed like rabbits and exhibit widespread features of low intelligence, poor coping skills and aggressive, anti social behaviour.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess he's talking about Asians (over 1/2 the world's population), but I always thought they did well on the SAT's. Geez, now I regret copying off that Indian fellow in calculus...Now as for aggression, the most aggressive races are without a doubt, whites (beginning with the Greeks, Romans, Hapsburg Empires (spelling?), the European colonial era, the world wars, the American Vietnam action, we killed millions. Second would have to be the Mongolians, who sacked Europe and had a holocaust bigger than the Germans' in WWII.

[ QUOTE ]
Half of all murders (and much of the crime) in the U.S. are caused by a particular race...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know the homicide by race stats, but I do know from Criminology and Sociology that 80% of this country's homicides occur when the perp, victim or both have been drinking alcohol. Maybe it's malt the liquor (just kidding here posters...lol) That said, I have trouble believing this statistic, is it accurate?

[ QUOTE ]
Despite many years and government efforts, the SAT scores of a certain race remain shockingly low.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, if he's referring to Africans and not Asians (see above) this fact is off. It's a given that the predominantly African-American schools in this country see less money per child than those high SAT-scoring white MOFO's

[ QUOTE ]
Asians routinely outperform whites and are disproportionately represented at elite universities, despite being a minority and in spite of poverty and limited integration into society."

[/ QUOTE ]

This fact is a misrepresentation. Foreign born and educated Asians outscore whites on the SAT's. Seems their highschools are better than ours.

Let's sum it up, these statements are pure ignorance. Moreover, all of the above doesn't even address the most crucial reason the African nations are in utter despair, which is that the white-sponsored slave trade literally ripped wounds in these countries that will take 100's of years to heal.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-20-2005, 03:07 PM
Rduke55 Rduke55 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 15
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

But what the hey:

1) Overall brain size (in non-pathological cases) is a terrible measure for just about any ability you can think of especially something as complex as "intelligence"

2) Even throwing that idea out, overall brain size is highly influenced by epigenetic factors such as nutrition, enrichment, etc.

3) Throwing that out, many of the measurement studies on overall brain sizes and race are confounded by (off the top of my head - there's more) a) selection bias, b) statistical problems such as the "regression effect", and c) the problems of grouping into races (perhaps an offshoot of a?), and d)problems in using traditional IQ tests.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-20-2005, 04:02 PM
Lestat Lestat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 383
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

Just curious who YOU believe wrote the gospels. Isn't this incredibly important? You are putting a major amount of your faith and very being into all of this stuff.

Not knowing who wrote the gospels in addition to the wacky stories that fly in the face of reality, are big reasons why I'm an atheist. Perhaps if I knew and trusted those who wrote the gospels, I could overlook some of the tales that defy all reason. Nah... I probably still couldn't overlook it. But I would at least make more of an effort to understand Christian beliefs.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-20-2005, 04:29 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

Frankly, I think there is a very valid point here. The current status of the black race genuinely appears to be bad, as far as mental capability is concerned. However, I don't believe that it's inherent to the race. That is, I believe that someone could, in principle, embark on a selective breeding campaign to turn the black race into the (statistically) most intelligent race after many generations. This might, of course, be evil and involve the "removal" of the bottom end of the bell curve, but it emphasizes the point that the mental capability of any given race is a dynamical variable and not a fixed, inherent trait.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-20-2005, 04:49 PM
Jeff V Jeff V is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 149
Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

"Perhaps if I knew and trusted those who wrote the gospels, I could overlook some of the tales that defy all reason. Nah"

So why answer your question? Just to here you say nah?
Nah.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.