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  #31  
Old 12-20-2005, 09:35 AM
purnell purnell is offline
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It has nothing to do with "race", whatever that is, and everything to do with poverty and substandard basic education. I know the anarchist types here don't feel like they have any responsibility in this regard, but the fact is we can't just lock them all up. It is in wealthy people's own interest to try to break the cycle of poverty.
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  #32  
Old 12-20-2005, 09:58 AM
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That was kinda my starting point purnell, though I'll admit to having found out a few things I didn't previously know as this thread has progressed, particularly with regards to physiological differences in brain structures.

Nevertheless, I still find the original post idiotic. Not because of the subject matter or the assertion, I wouldn't restrict anything from intelligent debate, and this is a pretty interesting subject. But offensive because of the insulting and racially denegrating way his view was expressed.

On the issue of IQ, there seem to be a number of contradictory facts floating about, but there's enough evidence that some kind of claim about a racial factor in IQ can be reasonable. That said, there are a lot of other factors outside of race involved in this, a lot of mixed views in research from what I can tell, and every evidence that the recorded gap is closing (for whatever reason). On top of which, low intelligence was only one of a number of charges Phil made. The others were poor coping skills, aggression and anti-social behaviour. All of which are anecdotal and/or based on fuzzy statistics where race is only one of a score of variables. Mainly it's offensive because the OP presents himself as just plain not liking blacks.
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  #33  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:27 AM
Jeff V Jeff V is offline
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[ QUOTE ]
Since, in the long run, the busier these forums are, the more money I make,

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh cander. Thanks.
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  #34  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:16 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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When phil153 was OOO with the umlats, I thought he had some good posts. I can’t figure out what happened when he devolved into phil153. Witness the following statements of his:

[ QUOTE ]
I question whether he (Jesus) ever existed. I know that sounds insane in a culture built on the certainty that he did (and Christmas movies presented as fact), but the more you actually look at what historians and Catholic apologists write about the issue, the more you realise the evidence is very scant. Without the bible, there would not be enough evidence for a historian to consider him a real historical character.

As the only evidence, the new testament comes under scrutiny. The first parts of what would become the New Testament were written around 40 years (the absolute minimum according to even religious scholars) after his death. Later parts were added up to 100 years after his death. In a time of myth and superstition, without widespread education/writing, TV, or reliable press, such a story could very well be a complete fabrication. Certainly there were excellent reasons for religious powers to write a story which combined the prominent pagan myths of the day (as the bible suspiciuosly does).

Anyway, the point is that even if he did exist, we can't reliably say anything at all about him or his life, as none other than the religious powers of the day wrote anything historical about him.

[/ QUOTE ]

David,

I had always suspected part of your motivation for posting some of the things you do had to do with your (probably, mostly tongue-in-cheek) comment that “…Since, in the long run, the busier these forums are, the more money I make…”.

I would suggest, though, that in the long run (even though, we are all dead) it might be better for you to keep some integrity to 2+2. While I understand that your motivation for posting this thread might also be attributable to not wanting thoughts like this to go unchallenged (irrelevant whether one concurs or not), I think it would be more valuable for 2+2 to not compromise its quality.

Perhaps, it is already too late. Once you made atheism all the rage there wasn’t much hope of maintaining control of the beast you created. (I am not talking about atheism, per se; just the brand we often see here on this forum. You must admit it is often not very flattering to itself.)

But, this is your domain. Who am I to suggest how you should guide it? I apologize for not responding to your OP directly. I just can’t bring myself to do it. As Lillian Hellman said, “ I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year’s fashion.”

RJT
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  #35  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:35 AM
Jeff V Jeff V is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
When phil153 was OOO with the umlats,

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmphh. I did not know this.

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, it is already too late. Once you made atheism all the rage there wasn’t much hope of maintaining control of the beast you created. (I am not talking about atheism, per se; just the brand we often see here on this forum. You must admit it is often not very flattering to itself.)

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a RGPish feel here once in a while.
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  #36  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:09 PM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When phil153 was OOO with the umlats,

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmphh. I did not know this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I liked him when he was OOO.


[ QUOTE ]
There is a RGPish feel here once in a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps the cold weather here has my brain a bit frozen - RGP is what?

RJT
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  #37  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:24 PM
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[ QUOTE ]
I can’t figure out what happened when he devolved into phil153. Witness the following statements of his: "I question whether he (Jesus) ever existed."

[/ QUOTE ]

I know it's shocking. It was to me when I first started investigating it. So tell me (in the other thread if you prefer)

1. Who wrote the books of Mark, John, Epistles, etc? (Hint: It wasn't his apostles - lol)
2. What independent historical evidence of Jesus is there?
3. Why did no contemporary Jewish or Roman historian mention Jesus (there a quite few surviving histories from that time)?

Christian scholars themselves can answer these questions for you. Until you can answer them, it might be better to avoid deriding my posts.

[ QUOTE ]
I think it would be more valuable for 2+2 to not compromise its quality.

[/ QUOTE ]
2+2 is about high quality POKER and gambling information. This forum is in the other topics section.
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  #38  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:33 PM
Jeff V Jeff V is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
RGP is what?


[/ QUOTE ]

Used to be a phenominal poker forum with the best players in the world posting, and analyzing hands. Unfortunately it degenerated into an ugly arguing rumor mill, and the great posters left.
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  #39  
Old 12-20-2005, 01:02 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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"Since, in the long run, the busier these forums are, the more money I make . . ."

Alas, another reason for me to regret my 12,000 posts . . . [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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  #40  
Old 12-20-2005, 01:13 PM
Rduke55 Rduke55 is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
Um, brain size differences between races?? There is a strong correlation between this and IQ. The differences were reported a while ago (again) in New Scientist and elsewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up.

In the meantime Wikipedia has an interesting and well referenced article for anyone not familiar with the topic. There is more going on here than cultural or historic differences. Anyone without a bias can see this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_an...s_among_races)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there are a lot of problems (including technical, statistical, and design) with many of the studies you're quoting here (actually I guess it's "the studies your quotes are quoting"). And the interpretations are suspect. One that jumps to mind is attributing genetic causes to that which is better explained by environmental causes. Maybe you should look in greater detail instead of googling for ten mninutes and finding something that supports your crazy assertations and taking that as gold.

Aldous Huxley's quote defining philosophy seems to ring true here:
Finding bad reasons for what one believes for other bad reasons [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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