speed up slow down speed up slow down

[dankhank]

party 15/30

two fish limp UTG and UTG+1, i limp in the cutoff with Jd9s, and a 13/7/2.0 player limps behind. blinds complete and check.

flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

four checks, i bet, button raises, SB 3-bets. BB folds, UTG's fold, i call two, button calls.

turn is 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB bets, i raise, button pauses and 3-bets, SB folds, i call.

river is 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. i check, button bets, i call.

anybody lead the river? anybody cap the turn?

[CardSharpCook]

quit calling and start capping.

The button is not a very aggressive player preflop or postflop, judging by the stats. With 3 people that already limped in front of the button preflop, I dont think the Button would raise AJo,KQo,or maybe not even TT, and he would also limp in with J9s. On the flop, the button can have any of these hands. On the turn I dont think the button would 3 bet with KQ here so that hand is ruled out. He may not even 3 bet with TT, and he may raise TT preflop, so this hand is also highly suspect. So it looks to me that the button either has AJo or J9s and possibly TT. If you assume this hand range then you are a 4-1 underdog on the turn to have the best hand, which means all you really have here is a crying call on the turn and river IMO. So no I would not cap the turn and no I would not lead the river, not against this opponent.

Also, even if you did assume the button would 3 bet the turn with KQo, you are still a 4-3 underdog which means you should still just call down. I also did not include hands like KTs or QTs in the button's range becuz I am almost certain the button would never 3 bet this turn with these holdings.

[DeeJ]

Wes, Hero has a 9TJQK straight already - he's only losing to AJ or a flush coming on the river if Villain has 2 hearts. I'd cap the turn and lead the river, I think although I'd always imagine the monster will get shown down to me from a tight player.

If raised, I call because the only hand that makes sense is AJ although it could always be another J9 which we chop.

[ QUOTE ]
Wes, Hero has a 9TJQK straight already - he's only losing to AJ or a flush coming on the river if Villain has 2 hearts. I'd cap the turn and lead the river, I think although I'd always imagine the monster will get shown down to me from a tight player.

If raised, I call because the only hand that makes sense is AJ although it could always be another J9 which we chop.

[/ QUOTE ]
This opponent is a very tight player who is also not that aggressive. Becuz of this he can therefore be put on a very limited range here. AJo,KQo,J9s,TT is his range IMO. Since the hero is an underdog against this range, he should not put any more money in this pot then he has to. Capping the turn or betting the river is wrong IMO against this opponent.

[bpb]

[ QUOTE ]

This opponent is a very tight player who is also not that aggressive. Becuz of this he can therefore be put on a very limited range here. AJo,KQo,J9s,TT is his range IMO. Since the hero is an underdog against this range, he should not put any more money in this pot then he has to. Capping the turn or betting the river is wrong IMO against this opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine him cold 3-betting on the turn with anything outside this range. Good analysis.

Also, I hate this limp preflop with J9o. Even fish aren't limping many hands that you dominate, while they will limp with a lot of hands that dominate you. And you have no guarantee of absolute position. Even very tight buttons will enter the pot with a lot of hands with 3 limpers to them.

[dankhank]

the results were interesting on this one. the button turned over black QTo for flopped botttom two. while i played the hand i thought i was being a little sneaky with the flop call, making it look like i took a stab at the pot with a flush draw and then slowed down. i was raising any non-heart turn, thinking one of the two guys was probably drawing to it.

i normally play this hand straight up on the flop and cap. if the SB had called instead of 3-bet i would've 3-bet, wanting to have control of the hand on the turn. but since he was betting before me, i saw no reason to give away my hand there.

anyway, based on what villain turned over, i thought it was a good example of how a quiet call in the right place (or a check) can generate lots of bets on later streets.

my thinking was the same as wesley during the hand, but i guess i sufficently confused the button and got him out of his standard 3-bet range.