1 Pair Turn Bets

[lapoker17]

I've been staying at Commerce all week and have been playing nonstop - a lot more than I have since when I started playing (and posting) last fall. One thing I've been thinking about a lot is the turn and how to best play 1 pair hands.

We all talk so much about pot control, and I'm normally at the forefront of such advice, but I think that turn checks have become a real leak in my game.

I've been playing in some tough games - the morning ones where the grizzled pros come in every day just like it's the office.

Here's something I've noticed:

The guys who make me the most uncomfortable are the guys who bet TPGK when checked to on the turn - even on drawless boards. And so I've started doing it more.

So much is obviously player dependent, but I just feel like we may go a little overboard here with the whole pot control angle.

I've been getting pretty good at value betting the river - it's been my focus for the last month or so, but now I'm thinking a lot more about value betting on the turn.

I think the live vs. online difference may be huge here - because the turn bets of which I speak are best against bad players - and there are so many of those in live games.

It's primarily when in position that this seems to be a good bet, and I'm just so used to checking behind that it feels weird to fire here - yet I'm doing it a lot now - and it works. I'm getting called by a lot of worse hands and following up on the river with bets that are proportionately the same in appearance, but are now much larger due to the extra bets on the turn.

I haven't read many poker books, so maybe I'm just talking about something that's academically basic, but whatever - I hope someone else relates.

[Allinlife]

you bring up an interesting point. however, how do you deal with people adapting to your increased turn bet % by countering with CR turn bluffs and such? it's really hard to call those with lone pair bad kicker... you know what I mean?

could you go over more details perhaps [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[lapoker17]

My post is a little mixed up as I think I tried to cover 2 things that are decidedly different.

The first is the NO FREE CARDS line that aggressive pros often take. In the last few days I've been blown off hands by players who have position and hold the same hand that I do - because they bet the turn.

The second is the way it works against bad players - they call - they always call.

When you have KQ and they have KJ, you can often get paid on all 3 streets. They are not good enough to c/r bluff the turn - it wouldn't even occur to them.

[etizzle]

well one main difference between live and online is that turn check/raises put you in a much tougher spot online, wehre people are more willing to agressively semibluff and you may have no idea how a guy plays because youre playing 4 tables.

Live though, when you can look a guy in the face and have been watching him play for hours, its not that hard to come up with a decent idea of what a guy is up to when hes check/raising.

also people tend to be more passive in general, which should mean we make less mistakes handling their check/raises.

[flawless_victory]

thats a live thing.. the reason is that you are v unlikely to get action from hands you beat on the internet.
i mean v v unlikely.

[coltrane]

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We all talk so much about pot control, and I'm normally at the forefront of such advice, but I think that turn checks have become a real leak in my game.


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I know what you mean


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The guys who make me the most uncomfortable are the guys who bet TPGK when checked to on the turn - even on drawless boards.

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agreed


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So much is obviously player dependent, but I just feel like we may go a little overboard here with the whole pot control angle.


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yeah, I just think that live, opponents - especially bad opponents - don't bluff-checkraise or semi-bluff checkraise the turn as much as people here seem to think and definitely not nearly enough to justify the check/missed bet/free card

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I think the live vs. online difference may be huge here - because the turn bets of which I speak are best against bad players - and there are so many of those in live games.


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see above


I usually just take note of the guys I think a turn check will be good against (i.e. - they'll make a raise that'll make me uncomfortable/they'll fire a barrel on the river automatically if I check) and there's not often that many of them....plus, even against them sometimes I'll bet the turn if I can accurately read when they're full of sh!t....usually in these games, if someone raises me on the turn they have a hand that I'm practically drawing dead against anyway so it's better poker to bet (which means that it's also sometimes a good idea to check if I have a lot of improvement outs on the river)......if I think it's close, I'll think to myself "who benefits more from the free card here?".....

[BobboFitos]

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.if I think it's close, I'll think to myself "who benefits more from the free card here?".....

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I like this thinking alot