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#1
06-21-2005, 11:34 PM
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Cold calling hands
According to the book I'm reading, it's rarely correct to call a raise before the flop in hold-em; you should usually either raise or fold. But there are a very few hands where the book does recommend a "cold call." My question: is there a theoretical basis for cold calling with certain hands, or is it "just because?"
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#4
06-22-2005, 11:25 AM
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Re: Cold calling hands
The reasoning here is that cold-calling is almost never the optimal strategy preflop. Calling is often correct postflop because, although you're behind to the villain's range of hands, you have a significant chance of winning, the pot is large, and a raise wouldn't accomplish anything. preflop, this will rarely be the case. Either you're ahead, and you need to reraise, or you're behind, and you need to fold in a small pot.
If there are a lot of opponents in, you expect more callers, or the villain is bad enough to lose many bets if you hit, just calling may be optimal with certain hands. This is very rare though. (Except in the Foxwoods 5/10, where you can gleefully call a raise from UTG in UTG+1 because 5+ terrible players will inevitably come in behind.) Also note: although calling is rarely perfect, calling in a situation where you should be 3-betting might be better than folding and vice versa. That is, in doubtful cases, a cold-call might be best if you're uncertain and the wrong play would be strongly -EV. I'm not positive about this paragraph though. Thoughts? (Also, by the time you've played a substantial amount of holdem, you should be good enough at preflop assessments that this should rarely be a problem)
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#5
06-22-2005, 02:21 PM
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Re: Cold calling hands
[ QUOTE ]
The reasoning here is that cold-calling is almost never the optimal strategy preflop. Calling is often correct postflop because, although you're behind to the villain's range of hands, you have a significant chance of winning, the pot is large, and a raise wouldn't accomplish anything. preflop, this will rarely be the case. Either you're ahead, and you need to reraise, or you're behind, and you need to fold in a small pot. If there are a lot of opponents in, you expect more callers, or the villain is bad enough to lose many bets if you hit, just calling may be optimal with certain hands. This is very rare though. (Except in the Foxwoods 5/10, where you can gleefully call a raise from UTG in UTG+1 because 5+ terrible players will inevitably come in behind.) Also note: although calling is rarely perfect, calling in a situation where you should be 3-betting might be better than folding and vice versa. That is, in doubtful cases, a cold-call might be best if you're uncertain and the wrong play would be strongly -EV. I'm not positive about this paragraph though. Thoughts? (Also, by the time you've played a substantial amount of holdem, you should be good enough at preflop assessments that this should rarely be a problem) [/ QUOTE ] Would cold calling be OK if you were in middle position and you had a medium pocket pair like 6's or 7's? I've done that hoping to hit a set. If I hit it, I hammer the pot and fold if I miss.
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#6
06-22-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: Cold calling hands
[ QUOTE ]
Would cold calling be OK if you were in middle position and you had a medium pocket pair like 6's or 7's? I've done that hoping to hit a set. If I hit it, I hammer the pot and fold if I miss. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, i meant to put in my Foxwoods parenthetical that i was envisioning a hand like 55. If you flop a set, and all goes perfectly, you can win 3.5 BBs from a single player. (flop bet, turn raise, river bet) Things won't always go that perfectly, and you'll lose sometimes, so I'd say maybe 2 BBs after the flop? You'll flop a set 1 in 8 times or so, winning those 2 BBs plus the 2.75 BBs in PF action (bet, call, and blinds). That adds up to 4 BBs maybe (discounting PF action for those times you flop a set and lose). You need 4 more BBs to make the call OK. If there are callers in front of you, you can make the call, as the huge pot might attract more callers, and a multiway flop will increase your post-flop take. It's highly game-dependent though. Mostly that kind of call will be OK only in low to low-medium limit B&M games.
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#7
06-22-2005, 04:55 PM
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Re: Cold calling hands
[ QUOTE ]
Would cold calling be OK if you were in middle position and you had a medium pocket pair like 6's or 7's? I've done that hoping to hit a set. If I hit it, I hammer the pot and fold if I miss. [/ QUOTE ] From railbirding Howard Lederer at FTP, I gather that his opinion is that it is better to raise with a hand like that, hoping to isolate an early position raiser who may just have two big cards. Certainly, if you are playing a pair hoping to flop a set, you want to have more than just one other player in the pot and you prefer to get in for just a single bet to have proper implied odds. It might be legitimate if you thought it likely that you would get several callers behind you who chase to much with overcards or other bad draws.
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#8
06-22-2005, 06:29 PM
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Re: Cold calling hands
[ QUOTE ]
although calling is rarely perfect, calling in a situation where you should be 3-betting might be better than folding and vice versa. That is, in doubtful cases, a cold-call might be best if you're uncertain and the wrong play would be strongly -EV. I'm not positive about this paragraph though. Thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] This is extremely dangerous reasoning. My advice is never to call without an excellent reason. When you don't have a good reason for anything, either fold or raise. If you're crossing the street and a speeding truck is headed right at you, jump forward or back, don't stand still.
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#9
06-23-2005, 12:33 AM
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Re: Cold calling hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] although calling is rarely perfect, calling in a situation where you should be 3-betting might be better than folding and vice versa. That is, in doubtful cases, a cold-call might be best if you're uncertain and the wrong play would be strongly -EV. I'm not positive about this paragraph though. Thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] This is extremely dangerous reasoning. My advice is never to call without an excellent reason. When you don't have a good reason for anything, either fold or raise. If you're crossing the street and a speeding truck is headed right at you, jump forward or back, don't stand still. [/ QUOTE ] Excuse me but the poster did not specify this to limit and in NL there are a whole bunch of reasons to call preflop believing you are ahead or behind. A simple example, blinds are .50-$1 you have $50 in your stack and your opponent has $50 in his. The villain raises to $4 and you put this tight player on A-K or big PP. You also know that this opponent gets married to hands once he is in and would risk his stack with overpair or TPTK. You are on BB and all fold to you. You look at your cards and hold 5-5. Here are your options: Fold you are behind Raise even though you are behind. Or call. If you call the pot you invested $3 with $5 already in however since you believe that if you hit your set on the flop that you can get him all in your investment of $3 stands to win $51 (His $50 and your 1$ already in.) I'll let you guys figure the odds on your $3 investment.... oh wait we can't call we must either raise or fold preflop so we are not allowed to make this play.
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