absolute morality - relative morality = 0 ?

[chezlaw]

I (and I assume the same for most other people) have moral feelings that change with my understanding of the situation.

Suppose there is an absolute morality. How could I do better than follow the guide of my moral feelings?

If god then, as I've already wittered on about at length, my moral feelings are the best possible guide to absolute right/wrong.

If no god, then either I have no understanding of this moral absoluteness in which case my feelings are as good a guide as any or I understand this moral absoluteness.

If I understand this non-god moral absoluteness then is it possible that my feelings wouldn't mirror it? It seems nonsense to say I understand that something is wrong but I feel it is right.

Conclusion. If there is an absolute morality I can do no better than follow the guide of my moral feelings.

chez

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
I (and I assume the same for most other people) have moral feelings that change with my understanding of the situation.

Suppose there is an absolute morality. How could I do better than follow the guide of my moral feelings?

If god then, as I've already wittered on about at length, my moral feelings are the best possible guide to absolute right/wrong.

If no god, then either I have no understanding of this moral absoluteness in which case my feelings are as good a guide as any or I understand this moral absoluteness.

If I understand this non-god moral absoluteness then is it possible that my feelings wouldn't mirror it? It seems nonsense to say I understand that something is wrong but I feel it is right.

Conclusion. If there is an absolute morality I can do no better than follow the guide of my moral feelings.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]Could you run this by me again without god?

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I (and I assume the same for most other people) have moral feelings that change with my understanding of the situation.

Suppose there is an absolute morality. How could I do better than follow the guide of my moral feelings?

If god then, as I've already wittered on about at length, my moral feelings are the best possible guide to absolute right/wrong.

If no god, then either I have no understanding of this moral absoluteness in which case my feelings are as good a guide as any or I understand this moral absoluteness.

If I understand this non-god moral absoluteness then is it possible that my feelings wouldn't mirror it? It seems nonsense to say I understand that something is wrong but I feel it is right.

Conclusion. If there is an absolute morality I can do no better than follow the guide of my moral feelings.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]Could you run this by me again without god?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have a go.

Suppose there is an absolute right/wrong i.e. in any specific situation there is a correct moral action.

Suppose also that I have moral feelings that are informed by my understanding of the world. (I take this to be true - it seems to be how it works)

If I want to be moral then can I do better than follow my moral feelings?

I'm not sure the answer is no but I think it may be. What do you think?

chez

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I (and I assume the same for most other people) have moral feelings that change with my understanding of the situation.

Suppose there is an absolute morality. How could I do better than follow the guide of my moral feelings?

If god then, as I've already wittered on about at length, my moral feelings are the best possible guide to absolute right/wrong.

If no god, then either I have no understanding of this moral absoluteness in which case my feelings are as good a guide as any or I understand this moral absoluteness.

If I understand this non-god moral absoluteness then is it possible that my feelings wouldn't mirror it? It seems nonsense to say I understand that something is wrong but I feel it is right.

Conclusion. If there is an absolute morality I can do no better than follow the guide of my moral feelings.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]Could you run this by me again without god?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have a go.

Suppose there is an absolute right/wrong i.e. in any specific situation there is a correct moral action.

Suppose also that I have moral feelings that are informed by my understanding of the world. (I take this to be true - it seems to be how it works)

If I want to be moral then can I do better than follow my moral feelings?

I'm not sure the answer is no but I think it may be. What do you think?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]Is it possible to cut out your moral feelings in the conclusion.

Suppose there is an absolute right/wrong i.e. in any specific situation there is a correct moral action.

Suppose also that I have moral feelings that are informed by my understanding of the world. (I take this to be true - it seems to be how it works)

If I want to be moral then can I do better than follow my understanding of the world, or gain more understanding of the world?

A limitation of these thoughts is that my moral correctness can only be as good as my understanding of the world.

[chezlaw]

Without the god otion, I think you're right and I can just talk about understanding.

[ QUOTE ]
A limitation of these thoughts is that my moral correctness can only be as good as my understanding of the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats more or less the conclusion I want to reach. If its true than how could I do better, in any situation, then go with my current understanding?

I may get it wrong but as that's due to my lack of understanding, how could I do better?

chez

[chezlaw]

There is at least one case when I need to use feelings not understanding, the case where someone claims there is no understanding.

So the conclusion I think maybe correct is:

Even if there is an absolute morality then, if I want to be moral, the best I can do in any situation is follow my moral feelings.

Anyone see a problem with this claim?

chez

[J. Stew]

Who/What is it that is guiding you. Thoughts, but where do the thoughts come from?

After you let your morals guide you, did you feel as though you were reaching deeper truths? If yes, then wouldn't you already be on the path to moral absoluteness? And if you are on the path to moral absolutness now, when did you first walk on the path? When you learned your first truth, or did you always know what your morals were/are?

[ QUOTE ]
Conclusion. If there is an absolute morality I can do no better than follow the guide of my moral feelings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Following the truths in your head lead to truer relative truths, but ultimate truth, which manifests ultimate morality, is not a concept, which thoughts/guiding priniciples are.

- Jeff

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Who/What is it that is guiding you. Thoughts, but where do the thoughts come from?

After you let your morals guide you, did you feel as though you were reaching deeper truths? If yes, then wouldn't you already be on the path to moral absoluteness? And if you are on the path to moral absolutness now, when did you first walk on the path? When you learned your first truth, or did you always know what your morals were/are?

[ QUOTE ]
Conclusion. If there is an absolute morality I can do no better than follow the guide of my moral feelings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Following the truths in your head lead to truer relative truths, but ultimate truth, which manifests ultimate morality, is not a concept, which thoughts/guiding priniciples are.

- Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking it doesn't matter where the moral feelings come from. I'm not saying they are correct (assuming an absolute morality to make the concept of correctness valid).

The question I wondering about is, how can I do better, in any situation, than trust my moral feelings? Assume the feeling may be misleading, then what can I do that is better?

chez

[J. Stew]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm thinking it doesn't matter where the moral feelings come from. I'm not saying they are correct (assuming an absolute morality to make the concept of correctness valid).

The question I wondering about is, how can I do better, in any situation, than trust my moral feelings? Assume the feeling may be misleading, then what can I do that is better?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

If your trying to find ultimate truth/morality, then understanding where the thoughts that drive your actions/more thinking come from, is important in order to realize that a conceptual understanding of morals is not the same as being moral. If you act from your guiding principles because you intrinsically feel they are truth, then that is Ultimate truth to the degree that you understand that innate quality about/of yourself.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
If your trying to find ultimate truth/morality, then understanding where the thoughts that drive your actions/more thinking come from, is important in order to realize that a conceptual understanding of morals is not the same as being moral. If you act from your guiding principles because you intrinsically feel they are truth, then that is Ultimate truth to the degree that you understand that innate quality about/of yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to find ultimate truth/morality here and I dont make any claim that my moral feelings are true.

I think (via introspection) that my moral feelings reflect my understanding of the world. I don't think they can get out of line, that is if I ever understood that something was morally wrong then I would feel it was morally wrong.

Part of the question is: could my moral feelings ever conflict with my understanding (this is an introspective empirical question, to which I think the answer is no).

The second part is: could I ever expect to behave more morally in a given situation then to follow this feeling/understanding. (assuming there is an absolute morality).

chez