Do you believe the shuffle is really random online???

[Ralphie]

I have been playing online poker for several years now. After starting out a loser I began to make money decent money for about three years. I studied the books from Two Plus Two esp. Hold Em for Advanced Players and Theory of Poker. I discovered Pokerstat and then more recently Pokertracker and used them to monitor and improve my play. My bankroll grew and I wound up playing 15/30 and 30/60 everyday on a well known poker site, making a six figure income.

However in January of this year the "party" stopped. I found that the games which I once dominated seemed almost unbeatable. Luckily I had been loading all my hand histories into Pokertracker so I was able to confirm that I was still playing about the same way I had while I was winning. It seemed that at the higher limits there were a few players who were able to play as if they knew what cards were coming. They would draw to the worst hands at times, but ONLY when they were going to hit. I began to watch carefully and record as many hand histories as I could. In the end the only logical conclusion I could come up with is that some players have discovered a way to predict or control the cards that will be dealt. Someone suggested that a player may have been able to see my cards by using some type of spyware program. Although this is entirely possible, I do not believe it to be the case in my situation. If they could ONLY see my cards why call against my aces, kings ect all the way, without any pot odds, to hit a running straight, running flush or two pair on the river, yet play a tight game the rest of the time.

Just to be totally clear, I am not talking about the times when someone tries to make a bluff, but then proceeds to get lucky by catching cards. I fully understand the semi bluff and it implications in middle to high limit play. What I am talking about is people who play well 90% of the time, but at times make the worst calls only to hit thier hands perfectly. You would expect someone who draws to just a running straight or flush in a small pot to be chasing cards all the time. But these players ONLY do it when they hit.

Also it seems that if they call the turn they will win the pot about 95% of the time. I am assuming the other 5% is just for show, or with hands that would just look too suspicious to support if they found out you folded. For example if you flopped the 2nd nut flush and folded to a player who had flopped the nut flush it would be too obivious that something was wrong.

Anyway sorry for ranting a bit. All I want to know is has anyone else had a similar experence beginning in late 2004/early 2005? If so please post so I will know I am not the only one. I only saw one other post of this nature online and most of the responses were more akin to insults. I have been getting beaten lately and I admit that. If calling someone a loser somehow makes you feel better about yourself then go ahead, no one can stop you. However I would really appreciate it if only people with something of value to add would reply to this post.

Thanks you all who participate!!! Ralphie.

[ravballz]

No they aren't, because computers need a programmed algorithm to make the hands 'random', ironically.

To answer your question in a more serious manner:

ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED

[Ralphie]

What do you mean when you say "rigged"?

We all know that some forms of cheating are possible, such as collusion. But when you say its "rigged" are you implying that the sites themselves are cheating players? For larger sites it really would seem that they have too much to lose should it be discovered. However a small group of rouge employees who discover a way to cheat is not beyond reason.

[ravballz]

It was irony. Basically what you're saying is that some players at some poker sites knows or has figured out what cards are going to fall.

My response to you is: no, this is not possible. It's random, and the poker sites have nothing to gain by rewarding some players. My brother calculated that partypoker makes roughly $7-8 million a day in rakes and transaction fees (might not be accurate, but it gives you an idea of why they don't need to be rigged). They have everything to lose and nothing to gain by doing this.


This will probably be the only half-serious anwser you will get to this question. These kind of posts come by every other week.

[PokerProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
They have everything to lose and nothing to gain by doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly!!!

[JayPaav]

the thing is, what ralphie is saying has nothing to do with the poker sites making any more money than they already are. he's talking about ppl who have figured out some codes to the software where it has become easier for them to call down hands that may be questionable because they know the software will deal a certain card/cards/hand.

[jacknine]

It´s easy to set up an algorithm with multiple random variables. So even though the RNG is not a 100% random, there is still no way to predict what cards will come. Tha´s random enough for me!

[JayPaav]

exactly... if i sit out a few hands when im playing online.. then get a hand that looks decent, i know im in for something - whether its a hit or a draw on the flop... i just know that the software understands it's my turn (the position that i'm in's turn) to get a hand.

[CudaGra]

As bad as I hate to admit it (certainly not to my wife) I think it would be really naive to think there is no difference between online poker and a real deck of cards. Just set down and deal out 70 hands and record the results. I realized this one day by keeping track of which cards hit on the flop in a hour of play, low and behold in order from most to least: A,K,Q,J,10 and then not really any difference, that's when I couldn't lie to myself any more and quit playing online. Plain and simple big hands=lots of action=big rake. GREEEEDDDDD!

[Kevin K.]

Ralphie, you are clearly a genius. I highly doubt that you will be completely satisfied with a response from anyone below your level of intelligence.

Therefore, I suggest that you do a search under "rigged". PM a few of those OP's and I'm certain that you will find the answers you are looking for.