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#1
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Collusion or just being friendly?
I play about once every three weeks in a live $500 max-buy-in NLHE game. I’ve played enough to know several faces and their playing styles. In the last few games, I’ve witnessed these type of activities amongst about 4-5 regular players, some of which are always in this game (the “Regulars”):
When a pot is heads-up against two Regulars, they will call out “check it down” and not bet. They will frequently even turn their hands face up on the table and tell the dealer to just run out the cards. This does not happen between a Regular and a non-Regular. This is an open effort to save the Regulars from taking money from each other, and instead go after the money on the table from the non-Regulars. Some of the Regulars openly discuss with other Regulars what they would have done after a hand is over, when other non-Regulars were in the pot. “I would have folded if you raised me on the flop.” “I checked the flop so you could bet and take the pot.” Sometimes its called out pre-flop: “If you raise, I will fold this hand.” None of this discussion clearly crosses the line into cheating or open collusion, and it could easily be interpreted as the type of normal banter that goes on at any table. But the nature of this conversation suggests collusion -- one Regular telling to another Regular what he means by certain actions, so they can effectively isolate the non-Regulars that are in the pot. I hesitate to say anything, mainly because I am routinely taking their money, Regular or not -- leave a good thing alone. It smacks of collusion, but its done in the open and I’m not detecting any hidden funny business (not that I have any experience at noticing cheating). One other player who used to play in this game says he stays away because of these guys openly checking it down with each other heads-up, but not with him or others that are not "part of their group". I think he senses cheating, and has just decided to stay away. Thoughts? |
#2
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
i don't like it, but as lon as they're doing it in the open, and it doesn't hurt you, I don't think you need to speak up against it if you don't want to. My guess is that the guy running the game is probably one of the "regulars." If so, saying something isn't going to do any good anyway. Furthermore, this isn't a tourney, so the other players are free to get up and cash in their chips if they want to.
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#3
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
I would have zero interest in playing in this game, but if you're making money, more power to you I guess.
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#4
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
As long as you can take money out of this game, keep playing.
Don't bite when they ask you if you want to play in the "special" $5,000 buyin. |
#5
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
If you keep winning money, keep playing. If they want to give information about their games to their buddies (and you can hear it and learn from it) keep going.
I do hate those games as well. I like it when my friends try to punish me for playing in the game. Treat it like an "earning game" as opposed to a "learning game". And definitely avoid the $5,000 special game the writer before me mentioned. |
#6
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
What you describe is collusion. Even if they don't raise you off your hand to get heads up with another regular.
I used to play in home games like this and stopped going when they kept it up. This isn't poker and the only way you will win in this game is when the deck clobbers you over the head. You should say something to them, and if they don't stop it, then you should find another game. |
#7
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
Something I guess I didn't make clear -- this is in a casino. Since Missouri still has a "$500 loss limit" (can only buy $500 in chips every 2 hours -- a holdover from the 2-hour "riverboat cruise" concept), the $500 and $1000 NLHE games are the "feature table" at this casino on Friday and Saturday nights, respectively.
Some of the responses so far may assume this is a home game. (There is zero chance of a $5000 NLHE game until Missouri drops the $500-loss limit.) Change any answers? |
#8
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
This is in a casino? The casino is allowing this open blatent collusion of the regulars against the new players? I'd find another casino; at least another table.
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#9
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
I have seen this happen in card rooms. Bay 101 in San Jose to name one.
From a competitive point of view, this always bothers me as an outsider. Even though it is "between the brothers", it makes you wonder if the rest of the game is on the up and up. Are there going to be any teaming/signaling when two of them are in a pot with an outsider? From a social point of view, it is less bothersome. A lot of people look at chopping the blinds, or not betting with your buddies when heads up as being friendly...Also, I'm sure a lot of players don't have a lot of money (and are losing players), so they are looking stretch out their gambling dollar by not playing too many pots. |
#10
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Re: Collusion or just being friendly?
what casino is this out of curiosity.
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