Something I have been thinking about

flair1239 · #1 10-29-2005, 10:01 PM

This may be better suited to the psych forum, but you guys are better poker players than the regulars there, and I consider this more of a strategy related poker issue than an emotional one.

First off I am not in a downswing. I am in a Upswing that has featured a extended series of -80BB, +90BB,-40BB, 60BB...etc sessions. I play about 6000 hands a week and play 6 out of seven days.

Now for my question. You are at a good table, maybe even a great table. One you are happy to find and ordinarily not consider leaving. You end up getting run down a few times after buying in for 30BB, you go down 20BB, rebuy for 10 more... and nothing seems to click.

What I am considering doing is instead of solidering on at this good table, I am considering leaving, shortly after the first rebuy.

The reason is, most of my off nights have featured, getting my ass handed to be for -30BB to -50BB on a single table. I really can only remember a couple times when I have come storming back and taken my vengence on the asstards who thumped me in the first place.

I mean is table image at an otherwise good table important enough by itself to make you leave?

toss · #2 10-29-2005, 10:20 PM

If you're going to be on tilt its best not to rebuy. I've violated this rule way too many times. If a LAG puts like 4-5 beats on me I always seem to end up rebuying for 50BB for the sole purpose on revenge. I push way marginal edges, flip coins, push my variance way the hell up. Stuff like capping AKo PF, on the flop, and the turn UI. So bad.

The best way to play against a maniac with an UI Ace to get to showdown cheaply as possible. No need to go to war without a pair.

molawn2mo · #3 10-29-2005, 10:22 PM

fwiw... In this player's opinion image is, indeed, a very relevant immediate factor and is enough of same that I will leave an otherwise good table because I've shown down badly, got caught stealing several times in a row, 3 bet a river on a thin value bet, etc.

Notwithstanding the potential tilt (I'm certain that you have pretty good control of this - your posting history assures me of this), even subtle tilt, your opps are invariably emboldened against you.

Solutions are to leave and return after a while, hopefully, in a different position.

On the other hand... if the table looks like it is one of those tables that may stay status quo for a couple of hours (a fairly rare occurence, but an occurence nonetheless) then it seems ok to tough it out, rebuild the image and take it from there.

Finally, and this is another level of the game that I, for one, have yet to come to grips with, but that I feel the better players can deal with using a negative table image to their advantage by altering/adjusting their play. In fact, I was talking to friend of mine about this exact concept and its application in low-mid limit and the potential for lagtardiness, etc. Anyway, it is ongoing discussion.

Anyway... sorry if this is a hijack.

Evan · #4 10-29-2005, 10:22 PM

If your image is sufficiently bad that your opponents will play better against you there's nothing wrong with leaving. Sometimes I stay partially out of pride, that probably costs me a few bucks every now and then.

#5 10-29-2005, 10:28 PM

What kinda image are we striving for?? The guy that always has it image?

Evan · #6 10-29-2005, 10:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What kinda image are we striving for?? The guy that always has it image?

[/ QUOTE ]
The one that makes people play retarded against you. Sometimes a sequence of hands will make people play noticably better against you.

flair1239 · #7 10-29-2005, 10:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw... In this player's opinion image is, indeed, a very relevant immediate factor and is enough of same that I will leave an otherwise good table because I've shown down badly, got caught stealing several times in a row, 3 bet a river on a thin value bet, etc.

Notwithstanding the potential tilt (I'm certain that you have pretty good control of this - your posting history assures me of this), even subtle tilt, your opps are invariably emboldened against you.

Solutions are to leave and return after a while, hopefully, in a different position.

On the other hand... if the table looks like it is one of those tables that may stay status quo for a couple of hours (a fairly rare occurence, but an occurence nonetheless) then it seems ok to tough it out, rebuild the image and take it from there.

Finally, and this is another level of the game that I, for one, have yet to come to grips with, but that I feel the better players can deal with using a negative table image to their advantage by altering/adjusting their play. In fact, I was talking to friend of mine about this exact concept and its application in low-mid limit and the potential for lagtardiness, etc. Anyway, it is ongoing discussion.

Anyway... sorry if this is a hijack.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this is good stuff.

See my thing is a start trying to compensate for what they should think. But sometimes I think when the 45/2/.4 guy starts making moves on you on the turn, it is time to pack it in.

I don't get that desprate feeling anymore (In the past I have been very familiar with it) it is more like ok what can I do now. I almost feel like my options get exhausted (tactically).

Things I notice, the bad players cold call you more and are more likely to peel (and worse, they start betting when checked to). Some of them suddenly learn how to checkraise.

I think when you are seeing 20-25% of your flops, having the players you are there to take adavantage of, start making your marginal hands tough to play... it is tough to think you have +EV at that point. Or at least that another table would be better.

flair1239 · #8 10-29-2005, 10:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If your image is sufficiently bad that your opponents will play better against you there's nothing wrong with leaving. Sometimes I stay partially out of pride, that probably costs me a few bucks every now and then.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the other thing. Maybe it is a form of tilt (Well now that I think about it there is no maybe), but it is a pretty diminishing feeling to be run off a table by a bunch of donkeys.

molawn2mo · #9 10-29-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If your image is sufficiently bad that your opponents will play better against you there's nothing wrong with leaving. Sometimes I stay partially out of pride, that probably costs me a few bucks every now and then.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the other thing. Maybe it is a form of tilt (Well now that I think about it there is no maybe), but it is a pretty diminishing feeling to be run off a table by a bunch of donkeys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, flair, we've been around long enough to know that even the donkey gets his day. Be happy for him. He'll be around again tomorrow with bells on. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

molawn2mo · #10 10-29-2005, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
See my thing is a start trying to compensate for what they should think. But sometimes I think when the 45/2/.4 guy starts making moves on you on the turn, it is time to pack it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the 45/2/.4 begins to 3bet your mp open raise or cc,cc,cr you, etc. and IT'S JUST YOU and no other opponent that he is acting against in this manner, then you are in trouble.