Is it OK to cold call in this situation?

[Matt Williams]

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Raising may not isolate but if you get the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]rag, K rag,JT etc out because they won't pay 2 bets you accomplished your goal.

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LIVE 4/8 players are NOT folding these hands before the flop.

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You said it. I remember about a month ago I capped pre-flop with pocket Aces. Guess who won the hand? The guy that called $16 preflop with a 2-4offsuit. Why? He had to "defend" his big blind. It's reasons like this that I spend most of my time in casinos and not online.

[crunchy1]

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Raising may not isolate but if you get the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]rag, K rag,JT etc out because they won't pay 2 bets you accomplished your goal.

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LIVE 4/8 players are NOT folding these hands before the flop.

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You said it. I remember about a month ago I capped pre-flop with pocket Aces. Guess who won the hand? The guy that called $16 preflop with a 2-4offsuit. Why? He had to "defend" his big blind. It's reasons like this that I spend most of my time in casinos and not online.

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There are plenty of players online that do this as well. And online players feast on them at anywhere from 2-5x the rate of a LIVE player.

[badbill7]

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lol, you crazy. chill out bra. read my above post. and Inside the poker mind does a good job explaining why cold calling LAGs is not the answer.


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I don't need to read a book to understand the correct play here. Not opening your cold calling range verse a player who raises T5o is incorrect. This is a basic expectation decision, and we'll often have +EV with hands like KTs, A9s, etc. when 3 or so loose players limp and a LAG raises. I don't understand how you can dispute this.

Anyway, I've given my thoughts on this, and don't have much to add. I'm not angry at all, and apologize if you interrupted my tone the wrong way.

the thought here is that against a maniac you actually tighten up you standards a bit. The reasoning is that just because someone raises crap doesnt mean that playing a hand with small ev is now very positive ev. In fact the opposite is what happens. The small ev hand now has to pay more for small ev. I think i agree with playing k9s not sure i three bet here. Maybey another two callers and i 3 bet this. would be interesting to run this on ps. the kj i think is an automatic throw away no cc and no three bet. Just my thoughts and im usually wrong but that is how ive understood playing against maniacs and extreme lags.

[Net Warrior]

This is an interesting discussion. I agree that KJo is a muck here. I think K9s is a borderline ok coldcall vs 2 limpers and a LAG raiser. I was wondering what others thought regarding the lower limit of suited calling hands. Axs seems ok, as does QTs, JTs. Anyone willing to call with worse here?

When there is a LAG player like there or a LAG table in general, I tend to tighten up even more. Never cold call, its almost always better to re-raise.

[oxymoron]

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This is an interesting discussion. I agree that KJo is a muck here. I think K9s is a borderline ok coldcall vs 2 limpers and a LAG raiser. I was wondering what others thought regarding the lower limit of suited calling hands. Axs seems ok, as does QTs, JTs. Anyone willing to call with worse here?

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With position I would also play hands that play well in a multiway pot like suited connectors especially at a live game.

[jat850]

I'll expand on what some people have implied - raise to isolate or fold appears to be the concensus opinion. Part of that is paying attention NOT to the maniac raiser, but to the limpers. THEY ARE YOUR MAIN CONCERN while the maniac gets what he wants, which is to be the center of attention. It is your position + your review of the limpers play that should determine whether you raise, fold and/or tighten/loosen play at the table with the maniac. If your limpers are folding a lot and only playing quality hands, you must tighten up, too. Since you mentioned lots of players, if their standards are looser, you can loosen up selectively, i.e. with position, but reads will be more difficult.

I love it when a table kind of tag teams the maniac by only playing quality hands. If the table does that, its does not take long to bring the maniac to his financial knees and the table gets to split the proceeds.

[gopnik]

it really depends who else is in and if you can isolate the guy. JKo is not a bad hand to isolate a maniac. K9s is probably a fold

[gopnik]

Trop rules, the loosest games in AC. Although, somehow I always loose when I play there