My gambler friend thinks online poker is boring

[scotty34]

It would be in all of our best interests if no more players with the potential to be good started working to achieve that potential. I would really prefer if he didn't decide to take it up.

[stlip]

Maybe your friend really couldn't beat the game and this is just his excuse.

[Oblomov]

[ QUOTE ]
online poker is my primary source of income but i don't enjoy it at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lol... so it's just like having a real job then. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[memphis57]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm only making about $4 per hour at Party 0.50/1. I've tried to explain how interesting it is to me, and that my current play is educational and could pay off in the future with $50-100+/hr earnings at higher limits when I get good enough.


[/ QUOTE ]

Getting a little ahead of ourselves?

[/ QUOTE ]

????

But I read 2+2... surely you aren't saying that it's not a sure thing that I'll be making $100/hr next year? Damn, and I already quit my day job [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Actually, I think I'm making pretty good progress, given the limited time I have to spend and the fact that I'm apparently not a poker natural. I was negative cumulatively at .50/1 until July. Now I'm in the black cumulatively and have averaged +3.3 BB over my last 15K hands. The $4/hr number is based on 4-tabling with a win rate of 2.0 BB/100.

BTW, I guess I got my friend thinking about it. I haven't said anything else yet but he just sent me copies of a couple posts off another message board - so he's looking into it again.

He knows about 2+2, but I don't know if he'll come here - Sam, post your thoughts if you read this thread.

[MicroBob]

this sounds like a fairly interesting guy imo.

I'm guessing he's in the Memphis area as well and hits up the casinos in Tunica for these +EV opportunities.

I was counting-cards in blackjack down there prior to taking up online-poker. I know there are other +EV opportunities but I'm too lazy to try to figure out exactly where they are and how to go about determining the long-term EV on them.
i haven't even bothered to read up on +EV video-poker play.
but it's no biggie...I don't like going to Tunica more than once a month anyway.

I enjoy the flexibility in schedule and the general convenience that online-poker affords me. Beyond that, I don't find it too too exciting.
It's okay...but if I wasn't profitable at it I certainly wouldn't be doing it.


Count duckula's point that some people enjoy chess while others don't is true.

I've played in the same kind of weekend chess tournaments and I don't believe he fully conveyed that these can be REALLY long.
5 games from Friday night to Sunday night (1 on Friday, 2each on Saturday and Sunday).
They can run 6 hours each (or longer) and demand some serious concentration. I've taken as long as 45 minutes on a single-move before.

I had one weekend chess tourney where all 5 of my matches took almost the max 6 hours. I was absolutely exhausted after all that concentrating. It was awesome.

Chess is not profitable for me at all (because I suck) but I do enjoy the challenge quite a lot and hope to have the free-time to get back into it someday.

[memphis57]

[ QUOTE ]
this sounds like a fairly interesting guy imo.

I'm guessing he's in the Memphis area as well and hits up the casinos in Tunica for these +EV opportunities.

I was counting-cards in blackjack down there prior to taking up online-poker. I know there are other +EV opportunities but I'm too lazy to try to figure out exactly where they are and how to go about determining the long-term EV on them.
i haven't even bothered to read up on +EV video-poker play.
but it's no biggie...I don't like going to Tunica more than once a month anyway.


[/ QUOTE ]

Your guesses are correct, and he also visits Las Vegas and the Gulf Coast from time to time. With that much coin in he's got free VIP travel there pretty much anytime he wants it.

I think he dabbled a bit in card-counting in Tunica, too, prior to VP, so you two may have played together. But for some reason he didn't stay with it long. I'm not sure why except I think he made a comment once about there being too few good games and too much chance of being spotted. He actually started out down there with one of those Scoblete-like craps systems but quickly figured out that was a pile of crap.

MicroBob, if you ever decide to take up VP, this guy has a private for-pay web site that tracks all the Tunica machines and promos that you'll want to sign up for. However, to maximize your profits, you have to be down there at least once and preferably several times a week, to take full advantage of the promos (cash coupons, drawings, merchandise giveaways, double points days, etc) and I fully understand your reluctance to go that often. That's kind of my hang-up. I've been trying to play the game with 3-4 visits per month, but I miss out on some free EV stuff that way. And anyway, it sounds like you're doing pretty good at poker so you're probably making more per hour doing that than you could net at VP.

[BigF]

[ QUOTE ]
and my friend finds ways to combine these promos with games that are 99% or so standalone, so that the combination is +EV. Lest some say this is impossible,

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to hijack the thread and probably nobody cares about this anyway, but if a bunch of games are 99%(HA is 1%) individually, then they simply can't be +EV when they are put together.

This is a common misconception among (winning) gamblers. You often hear people say, "these games are about even when played separately but if you play a whole bunch of them you can squeeze out some profit". This is a false statement.

We know that some VP games (with bonuses) are +EV. But why do people believe their EV <= 0 when you only play one of them? Assuming HA = 20%, Bonus = $800, WR = $4,000, their argument is, if you busted out you didn't win any money (obviously); if you didn't bust but lost all the bonus money, same thing; if you came out ahead you just got lucky because EV = 0. The argument is flawed even though all three statements are true.

As I said before this misunderstanding of EV won't cost you anything in this case. I just love to nitpick and I really hate mudded thinking.

[ QUOTE ]
Not trying to hijack the thread and probably nobody cares about this anyway, but if a bunch of games are 99%(HA is 1%) individually, then they simply can't be +EV when they are put together.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with your premise. But perhaps the OP's friend's position needs to be clarified here. It is quite easy for "losing" vp games to become +EV when you factor in other cash or cash-equivalent items that you receive as a result of your play. However, these opportunities are fading fast in Tunica as well as other parts of the US. I suspect this is why the OP's friend had any interest in on-line poker at all. I know several vp pros who have turned to live poker in the past 18 months due to declining vp opportunites.

I will have to add that the OP's friend must be a heckuva marketing genius to get people to sign up for a pay-site for Tunica vp. With an hour searching free vp websites and an hour or two of legwork, it'd be hard to miss an opportunity in Tunica. The $800+ vp opportunities that appeared there from time to time are long-gone. And no website would have alerted you to such a play or afforded you the opportunity to get on a game as there are simply too many knowledgeable players around who would "lock up" that play for themselves and their team-mates.

In years past I played quite a bit of vp in Tunica. However, it is hard to find anything justifying any play at all there now--assuming you are playing for profit and not for room or food comps.

[memphis57]

[ QUOTE ]
In years past I played quite a bit of vp in Tunica. However, it is hard to find anything justifying any play at all there now--assuming you are playing for profit and not for room or food comps.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are still opportunities, if you have info and patience. When Resorts bought the old Harrahs 6 months ago, they (accidentally?) ran a promo worthy of the good old days - 102% dollar JOB. And right now there's a 101.5% play at Sam's, if you have a big enough bankroll - it's on $5 DDB, too volatile for my bankroll. It's their regular 97% game but they have a promo on Wednesdays (tomorrow is the last day) where they pay a $500 bonus on any handpay. $5 DDB is a handpay on any 4OAK and up, so it's a huge yield boost. It works out to 101.5% with cashback and mailers.

But you're right in general, though, it does seem to be drying up. People I know in Las Vegas say it has already dried up out there. Advantage VP might be a thing of the past. That's why its good to have another game to play.

[Mr_J]

Maybe because online poker is boring??

Maybe he likes the live atmosphere, social interaction etc.