Raymer and BIG STACK poker... - Page 4

trigger man · #31 07-12-2005, 02:01 PM

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At the final table last year the other players repeatedly got all their chips in as favorites against Greg preflop and Greg sucked out. His stack going into the final table was impressive, but his final table play was nothing special.

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When play was ten handed, Greg got his stack from something like 5 mil to 8 mil without any altercations. He had almost twice as much as the second guy in chips when 9 handed play began.

He beat AA with TT and AK with AT, but that was pretty much it. He soundly took down Krux, beat Hughes in a coiinflip, took a humongous pot off Arieh and then eliminated him in a coinflip, and trounced Williams.

Daniel Hoerr · #32 07-12-2005, 02:03 PM

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Raymer seems like a good guy. He seems like an extremely strong player. I just don't think he did anything all that exciting at the final table last year. He played solid poker, had a big stack, and won.

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I agree with this 100%.

The question posed in the OP was; CAN he play the same game against some of the POSSIBLE other final tablers left in the field whose names carry a generally understood footnote of "world class"?

Anyone care to comment on their thoughts on this?

bobby rooney · #33 07-12-2005, 02:03 PM

So if a much smaller stack goes allin, do you just muck your TT? Heck no, because a small stack will go allin with a wide variety of hands due to the increasing pressure of the blinds. The great thing about weilding the big stack is that you can absorb a couple of losses when trying to knock out a small stack, whereas any loss on the part of a short stack and you are out the door. The ATo call might have been slightly thin, but even AT is still better than a lot of hands a short stack might go with.

mlagoo · #34 07-12-2005, 02:05 PM

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I was asked a question, and I answered it.

[/ QUOTE ]No you didn't. You made a claim of "numerous times." Surely you can recall even a few of these "numerous" times above and beyond the two that I am willing to concede (Hughes' Aces and one other I cannot recall).

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two is a number [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

istewart · #35 07-12-2005, 02:07 PM

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This is my last post in this thread, you guys can go back to looking at nude pix of Greg instead of reading my posts.

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Hahaha.

Myrtle · #36 07-12-2005, 02:09 PM

....to get away from the sniping, and answer the OP's original question....

What Greg will do going forward is what he ALWAYS does....

...He will focus on making GOOD DECISIONS, and he will do his best to not let anything distract him from that goal.

Sounds kinda dull, huh?

If there is a "Magic Bullet" in poker, that simple sentence basically defines it. Some readers are not willing to accept this tenet; so be it......

bobby rooney · #37 07-12-2005, 02:09 PM

If he has Ivey massively outchipped, you will certainly see him put moves on him or anyone else. Right now, it's still anyone's to win, but having a monster stack, and how good he is at beating people down with it, I like Raymer's chances.

Daniel Hoerr · #38 07-12-2005, 02:15 PM

**whew!** Someone finally addressed the question in the OP.

1/33 aint so bad I suppose in the WPT forum... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Thanks Myrtle.

TheCroShow · #39 07-12-2005, 02:18 PM

to be fair...the argument of "well he was a huge stack entering the final table, so his final table play was nothing spectacular.." argument is weak. how did he get that big stack in the first place? he played strong aggressive poker to accumulate those chips! my 2 cents

Brad F. · #40 07-12-2005, 02:31 PM

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Could you recount the several two-outers that Moneymaker hit?

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He cracked AA with 88 with about 45 left. Flop comes K-J-4 or something like that and Moneymaker goes all-in. Gets called by the rockets, hits an eight on the turn. That was a two outer.

Against Ivey he had 7 outs. One queen, three aces and three of the other card on the board. (Board was Q-Q-x-9).

Those were the only two hands that I recall, and I just watched all 7 episodes the last week. He got lucky with A2 at the final table I think too, but that was a PF all-in call.

The push with 8s I was shocked with the play but it's not horrid if he put his opponent on a mid pair too. Or something.

He made some mistakes. More seen on television than Raymer made. Raymer never had his aces busted in the telecasts for which we saw him. He lost to a runner-runner flush to Al Krux but they were all-in PF. From what I can tell from Raymer's comments and from the telecasts, Raymer didn't really get lucky or unlucky a whole lot. Won more flips than not, and that's a big key.

Anyway, those are the 'suckouts' everyone complains about with Moneymaker. On the Q-Q-x board and he's holding A-Q, he bet almost nothing in comparison of the flop, let Ivey hit his boat, and then rivered a bigger boat. But in that situation, wouldn't you want Ivey to call a bet and bet small because of it? Everyone complains about that hand all the time, but I think Money played it fine.

It's just easy to gripe when we are on the outside looking in and have no reprocussion for our actions. I'd like to see most of us making the correct decisions for millions of dollars. It's tough.

As far as skill goes, Money is at least decent to win the big one in my opinion. Raymer I think is one of the top 5 poker players in the world right now. His results speak to that.

Anyway, those are the suckouts. Not horrible ones really.

Brad