Weak Tight you say Mikel?

[amulet]

i am often accused here of being weak tight, which i do not agree.

i bet the river here without hesitation. no show of strength by the opponent so far, it is a clear value bet.

[skp]

Babe,

I think you ought to try the following for a week and see what happens:

1. Every time a solid playing black, yellow or white guy raises preflop, just smoothcall his raise with KK and AA and show aggression postflop instead.

On the other hand, if a not so solid playing brown guy raises (when he is in your town starting tommorow), you should call all bets to the river and then fold...heh

2. Always bet missed hands on the river when headsup (even AK or AQ which is normally a check and showdown hand for most of us on the river). It sounds like guys in your game are willing to fold to your river bets even if they have an overpair to the board because you always show them a big overpair when they do call.

[amulet]

Erika, Howard Bliss asked me to tell you that this was a value bet on the river.

[mike l.]

who's erika?

[mike l.]

"you have cultivated this image"

no she didnt. she just doesnt know how to play any other way. she plays weak tight because she is weak tight. she hasnt been purposefully creating an image she can now exploit by playing differently. she's not capable of that. the very best players are.

CULTIVATE: to foster the growth of c : to improve by labor, care, or study :

[andyfox]

I don't think it's accurate to say she doesn't know how to play any other way. She plays in a way with which she's comfortable. She's comfortable with it because she wins and because it suits her personality. It's not possible that she doesn't know how to play any differently. Everyone knows how to play differently.

[andyfox]

So a respected poster (deservedly so) posts this:

"5 handed 20/40. mediocre type limps utg, i raise on the button with AKo. Flop comes KQ8. He check calls. Turn 8 he check calls. River 9. He checks. He's exactly Jack Ten. I know it. I feel it. He wants to check-raise. But I have a good two pair. It's 5 handed. I have to bet, dammit. So I do. He check-raises. Damn, I hand read well - he does have JT and the voice in my head tells me to fold. I've been listening to lately and it's been working well. Why didn't I listen this time and check? Now what. Every part of my body is telling me to fold. It's gotta be the right play. But then my ego takes over and I want to prove myself right. I call. He shows JT and drags the pot. I hope I never do that again."

He "knows" he is beat but bets and calls a raise. Nobody says much, except that he should have trusted his spidey sense.

Now Pokerbabe says basically the same thing, except that she saved $120 instead of losing $80.

And apparently it's a crime against humanity.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
Now Pokerbabe says basically the same thing, except that she saved $120 instead of losing $80.

[/ QUOTE ]

given the hand ranges that will call or cr this river, pokerbabe breaks even by betting and calling the cr.

6 ways to have qq and gain a bet. 3 ways to have jj and cr to lose 2bets. now if she can fold to the cr......

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, as Gabe noted, I am not the pokerbabe at the bike. That person took my "handle" and is trying to pass herself off as THE original PokerBabe [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The real PokerBabe checks this river against this SOLID playing Black guy for the following reasons.


1). He does NOT have a RBP (really big pair) like KK or AA as he doesn't 4 bet preflop which he would do about 100% of the time. So, we have to narrow his possible holdings down from there.

2), There is a 10 on the flop and he can BEAT a 10 since he called the flop. He would check raise the turn with a set of 10s here about 100% of the time, so when he just calls the turn, I am pretty sure he has an overpair less than KK.

3). If he can beat a 10 with an overpair less than KK that means he has exactly two holdings and they are JJ and QQ.

4). His check calling pattern throughout the hand works perfectly for his plan to induce when he spikes on the river. He is now darn sure I have an overpair to the board and the innoculous looking Jack makes it very likely I will bet my overpair on the river.

5). By checking the river I get to see if my read was correct. And it was. Fortunately for me, it's probable that he will now always bet his hand on the river against me when he is leading.

LGPG,
Babe [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than you not discounting a flopped draw since he didn't raise the flop, I can buy in with this read. To a point.

Basically, you're saying he married his overpair on the turn when he'd get rid of 88 or 99 by then as it is unlikely that you'd have a 10 or any piece of this flop.

The fact he had an overpair clouded his mind enough to call for his 2 outer.

That and his raising standards in that situation preflop are pretty tight. Meaning he wouldn't raise with 88 or 99 in that spot preflop. Otherwise, those 2 hands should be factored in in the decision to bet the river since, again, he knows you likely have no piece of that flop given your preflop 3 bet. (unless your preflop 3 betting standards have changed from what is known on here)

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
So a respected poster (deservedly so) posts this:

"5 handed 20/40. mediocre type limps utg, i raise on the button with AKo. Flop comes KQ8. He check calls. Turn 8 he check calls. River 9. He checks. He's exactly Jack Ten. I know it. I feel it. He wants to check-raise. But I have a good two pair. It's 5 handed. I have to bet, dammit. So I do. He check-raises. Damn, I hand read well - he does have JT and the voice in my head tells me to fold. I've been listening to lately and it's been working well. Why didn't I listen this time and check? Now what. Every part of my body is telling me to fold. It's gotta be the right play. But then my ego takes over and I want to prove myself right. I call. He shows JT and drags the pot. I hope I never do that again."

He "knows" he is beat but bets and calls a raise. Nobody says much, except that he should have trusted his spidey sense.

Now Pokerbabe says basically the same thing, except that she saved $120 instead of losing $80.

And apparently it's a crime against humanity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Babes description was different. Just saying 'solid playing black guy' isn't enough to warrant the river check as a solid player can be raising preflop and play to the river with a little wider range than just QQ or JJ. If she mentioned he had tight raising standards no matter the position or whatever weakie limps in prior, that's can paint a little clearer picture.

She also made no mention of her 'spidey sense' during the hand. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I will say though, that live you can get that read easier just by how they check call during the streets. She also made no mention of that.



Basically her initial post is :

Solid player in CO raises a limper, I 3 bet on the button with KK.

Flop comes 10 high 2-tone. check, check, I bet, 2 calls.

Blank on turn: check, check, bet, limper folds, solid guy calls

River J: check behind.

Pretty bare bones really.

b