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#1
12-12-2005, 01:00 AM
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Have I taken this folding thing too far?
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Hero (t775) SB (t785) BB (t1970) UTG (t775) MP1 (t1395) MP2 (t1835) CO (t465) Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t15, SB completes, BB checks. Flop: (t60) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets t45</font>, BB folds, MP1 calls t45, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t770 (All-In)</font>, MP1 folds, Hero folds. Final Pot: t1000 
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#3
12-12-2005, 01:09 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so, I think on this drawless flop you're usually hosed at the $30s after the 3-bet all-in. [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking that a call might have been better afterward. But I think I kind of like the raise.
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#4
12-12-2005, 01:16 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
Wait couldn't SB reraise like this with any jack and a pocket pair less than jacks in addition to his 2 pair/set? I would call in this spot. If you're not going to call here and bust the donks who reraise any jack, why did you bother playing AJ in the first place?
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#5
12-12-2005, 01:30 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
[ QUOTE ]
Wait couldn't SB reraise like this with any jack and a pocket pair less than jacks in addition to his 2 pair/set? I would call in this spot. If you're not going to call here and bust the donks who reraise any jack, why did you bother playing AJ in the first place? [/ QUOTE ] The thing I hate about this situation is that the aggressor comes from the blinds. Had it been another, I'd be more inclined to call. Or, maybe this thinking is wrong.
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#6
12-12-2005, 01:39 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
I like this post because personally, i think TPTK gets you in trouble a lot. I think a lot of the problem in this forum is everyone seems to think you MUST extract the max in EVERY situation. That is simply not true. I dont mind folding the best hand if I think I can find a better place later on and i have a healthy stack. Maybe a better question to help you deal with this is how did the rest of this sng turn out. I have been in situations like this where i let it go, and every once in a while i even let it go when i leave myself shortstacked, but i come back and win the sng. sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor.
How did the rest of this sng play out?
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#7
12-12-2005, 02:01 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
[ QUOTE ]
The thing I hate about this situation is that the aggressor comes from the blinds. Had it been another, I'd be more inclined to call [/ QUOTE ] I like this thinking. If the villian is in middle position I call most of the time.
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#8
12-12-2005, 03:40 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so, I think on this drawless flop you're usually hosed at the $30s after the 3-bet all-in. [/ QUOTE ] By what? I doubt you will, but don't list off hands that beat you, list off why he played them like that and how often you think a player would play them like that.
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#9
12-12-2005, 04:00 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't think so, I think on this drawless flop you're usually hosed at the $30s after the 3-bet all-in. [/ QUOTE ] By what? I doubt you will, but don't list off hands that beat you, list off why he played them like that and how often you think a player would play them like that. [/ QUOTE ] when the small blind leads out into this tiny multiway pot on a board that could easily get checked around, it makes me suspect that he's trying to build a pot. would it seem worth it to him to bet a marginal hand into this 4-way 60-chip pot, trying to take it down? i don't think so, not most of the time. so when he bets i think he has at least a Jack the large majority of the time. the MP guy calls and then the LP guy makes a small raise. the SB has to figure it's pretty likely that at least one of his opponents has a Jack. the reason i think you're beat most of the time when he 3-bets is that i think the average player at this level doesn't expect his opponent to be able to fold any sort of decent Jack here. if our villain in fact thinks this way, he's quite likely to 3-bet here with a hand that can beat TPTK because he figures to get called, and doesn't want to lose his action to any one of 12 turn scare cards. buuut i dunno if he goes ahead and pushes with a hand like QJ or JT as eagerly, cos if one of his opponents has a Jack, it doesn't figure to be smaller than J9 or so. then again he might have expected AJ & KJ to raise in LP cos he would often have raised there himself. hmmm i'm talking myself into a call as I go. still, i do think that you'll often see a better hand here for the reasons I gave.
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#10
12-12-2005, 05:52 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't think so, I think on this drawless flop you're usually hosed at the $30s after the 3-bet all-in. [/ QUOTE ] By what? I doubt you will, but don't list off hands that beat you, list off why he played them like that and how often you think a player would play them like that. [/ QUOTE ] when the small blind leads out into this tiny multiway pot on a board that could easily get checked around, it makes me suspect that he's trying to build a pot. would it seem worth it to him to bet a marginal hand into this 4-way 60-chip pot, trying to take it down? i don't think so, not most of the time. so when he bets i think he has at least a Jack the large majority of the time. the MP guy calls and then the LP guy makes a small raise. the SB has to figure it's pretty likely that at least one of his opponents has a Jack. the reason i think you're beat most of the time when he 3-bets is that i think the average player at this level doesn't expect his opponent to be able to fold any sort of decent Jack here. if our villain in fact thinks this way, he's quite likely to 3-bet here with a hand that can beat TPTK because he figures to get called, and doesn't want to lose his action to any one of 12 turn scare cards. buuut i dunno if he goes ahead and pushes with a hand like QJ or JT as eagerly, cos if one of his opponents has a Jack, it doesn't figure to be smaller than J9 or so. then again he might have expected AJ & KJ to raise in LP cos he would often have raised there himself. hmmm i'm talking myself into a call as I go. still, i do think that you'll often see a better hand here for the reasons I gave. [/ QUOTE ] Nice post. I think this decision is as close as you imply, I figure sb often has two pair here.
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