Dealer Rant (NYC club)

Cornell Fiji · #1 01-05-2005, 06:57 AM

I am home from school for winter break so I decided to go check out one of those NYC poker clubs with two of my friends. The club is the one on 61st (do any posters play there? I am 95% sure that if so you weren't at my tables this week because the competition was atrocious.) And the dealers were absolutely terrible.

3 things/incidents that really annoyed me:

1- Kid dealer, no older than 23. He was only passively paying attention to the game, never charged people who missed blinds (fine, I dont have a big problem with this, nor was I going to say anything.) The most frustrating thing that he did however was when the hand got to the river and there was a big bet that someone was thinking about calling, he would shuffle the deck... FACE UP!!! He would expose nearly 1/2 the deck while there were big calls to be made, it was brutal.

2- "Nice Hand" -- I always tip, expecially in a place like this one where there is no regulation, tons of regular players, everyone knows one another, and dealers who are off play at the tables when they are off. I fully accept the fact that the game is not being played on the up and up and I don't want to make any enemies of the dealers. I am playing No Limit though and some of the pots are ended on the flop and I win $15 in a 5-5 game. When this happens I dont toke the dealer but the dealer always hits the table and says "Nice Hand" begging for a tip. Sometimes I have conceeded and tipped them, most of the time I dont, always I am annoyed.

3 - This was the incident that annoyed me more than any others. Playing at the 1/2 NL game I flop a flush on an A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] board get someone all in and when they see my hand they muck. Instead of the dealer pushing me the pot however he gave the cards back to the player and asked if he had a chance of making a runner-runner boat to beat me. The player said yes and flipped up A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The boat didn't come but I made a comment to the dealer (in an extremely nice tone because I don't want to make any enemies) that if a player mucks his hand against me I would appreciate it if he didn't turn it over. At this point the dealer got angry and told me not to tell him what to do and that he will always 'protect the player at all costs' and that 'at this table we play by my rules, if you don't like it then leave.' I thought about leaving, but then looked at the big stacks in front of me and actually apologized to the dealer for telling him how he should do his job (he would later acknowledge that 'there is some basis for what I said but he always wants to 'protect the player' and therefore this is how things will be done at his table. I didnt protest.)

Are bad dealers and sketchy situations inherent in these underground clubs? Is this something that I will have to accept if I want to play in these games? Are there any clubs that actually have good dealers and bad players (I would rather play at a place with bad players and bad dealers than a place with good players and good dealers)

Just needed to get these experiences off my chest, wondering if anyone else has seen this or if anyone else plays on 61st.

-Steve

TakeMeToTheRiver · #2 01-05-2005, 10:12 AM

Wow... as I have mentioned in response to one of your posts in a different forum, I play mostly on the UWS at NYPC and only occassionally at APC.

I don't know if I have seen anything as bad as you state in (1) and (3). With respect to tipping, if I win an unraised pot (pre-flop or later), I don't always tip. It depends on the dealer (and on how I am doing). I have even told them that I will catch them on the next one. However, when I am running hot and win a large pot, I will usually tip more than the obligatory $1. It is interesting that many players at the 5/5 game tip $1 every pot regardless of the pot size, while 1/2 players often tip very generously (I have even seen a $5 tip out of a $100 pot).

Your (3) is completely unacceptable and I would have asked for a ruling from the floor. The floor where I play generally runs a pretty tight game. I have seen them point out mistakes to their dealers all the time -- such as turning over the flop incorrectly, not shuffling sufficiently or inadvertently exposing cards.

But all of this is based on NYPC where I am friendly with many of the employees/dealers and I am pretty confident that the game is being played on the "up and up."

Luv2DriveTT · #3 01-05-2005, 10:15 AM

1) Call the floor immediatly. Stop the game. This is a HUGE error.

2) Get over it. Thats very common, in rooms all across America.

3) If the cards did not hit the board, then you should welcome the dealer to protect the player from making a silly error. Keep the game friendly, it will pay off in the long run. Be a bad ass, and you will loose the idiot players who are no longer having fun because in their eyes you tried to screw them over. You are of course right, but don't make a big deal about it. It will only hurt you.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

turnipmonster · #4 01-05-2005, 11:16 AM

I am all for keeping the game friendly, but I would have called the floor in #3, because otherwise where does it stop? retrieving mucked cards is way past the line for me, I would never play in a room where the floor allows that.

--turnipmonster

Luv2DriveTT · #5 01-05-2005, 12:15 PM

If the cards hit the muck pile, then I agree. If the dealer stopped that from happening, then keep it friendly.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

RollaJ · #6 01-05-2005, 01:04 PM

I HATE when dealers offer people their cards back when they decide to make a dumb muck. Unless there is proof it is the first time someone is playing I dont like seeing that done, and will tell the dealer not to do it again. If they do, I call the floor

The4Aces · #7 01-05-2005, 01:24 PM

lol sounds like that dealer owned you.

other1 · #8 01-05-2005, 02:09 PM

1) Unacceptable. Call the floor.
2) Don't be a cheapskate. Even if I won $1 on a hand I tip that $1.
3) Probably unacceptable depending on the exact situation. If the cards hit the muck, they are mucked. You could certainly have called the floor here.

If this type of stuff is common at APC I understand why it isn't as popular as some of the other places. As another poster said, this stuff doesn't happen at NYPC.

meow_meow · #9 01-05-2005, 02:38 PM

Wow, that sucks.
I used to play in Toronto about 5-6 years ago, both at a local indian casino and underground clubs. If anything, the dealers at the clubs were better and faster (if I bit more chatty) at the clubs than at the legit casino. Maybe the poker boom has diluted the dealer talent pool [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Second, I can't understand the attitude of the other posters re tipping. Granted, I haven't played B&M in some years, but tipping a dollar every time you win a pot is, IMO, ridiculous. Two thoughts, assume 40 h/hr, you win 3-4 pots/hr, you are tipping away ~25% of your expected earn. Second, does the dealer deserve to take $40 an hour in tips, even if it is all he's making? I don't think I'd play anywhere where I felt like not tipping might have consequences..

other1 · #10 01-05-2005, 02:43 PM

We aren't talking 2/4 ring games here. If $1/pot is 25% of your winnings you should find a new game. I'm not saying not tiping could have consequences, I'm saying it's the right thing to do. I know at least where I normally play tips are 100% of what the dealers make.