88 Final Table hand (Party $30)

illegit · #1 10-06-2005, 12:44 AM

Comments on all streets welcome. I'll let you know what i think later. But I don't want to influence input. Line? Hero's image is probably a big LAGgy. Villain seems rather solid.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20000 (4 handed) converter

BB (t315216)
UTG (t129112)
Button (t166566)
Hero (t489106)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t61400, BB calls t41400.

Flop: (t122800) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t49700, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t172500

Exitonly · #2 10-06-2005, 12:50 AM

I think the raise PF was a bit big, i'd probably go to 50,000... then bet 55k on the flop, and consider calling if he pushes, but probably folding.

#3 10-06-2005, 01:08 AM

IMO, I bet at least 50k, more like 75/80. Fold if he comes over the top.

adanthar · #4 10-06-2005, 01:27 AM

With your image and stacks (meaning you don't really want to call a push although you can/will), what I want to do is limp/reraise and/or flop a set.

On this flop...I like your check, but I think I'm gonna call this and treat a queen as good. Keep in mind that he's checking behind 100% of turns that help you when he has the best hand.

#5 10-06-2005, 01:34 AM

you are the big stack, and you are the only one that can bust him. also, the other two players have less than 10 bbs.

the fact that your image is laggy doesn't matter as much, because he will still probably be cautious with you given the stacks.

preflop is fine. lead out strong on the flop. if he raises or calls, then reevaluate.

after you checked the flop, checkraising all in against his small bet is a risky but badass play. he's going to lay down a lot of hands, and there are very few hands against which you aren't drawing live if he calls.

betgo · #6 10-06-2005, 01:41 AM

I would proabably just push preflop. However, making a smaller raise is more standard.

I would also just push the flop. You have an open ended plus a pair. You have a 36% chance against a pair, which is close to the pot odds you are getting. There is a good chance a push will win the pot. Who knows what your opponent called your raise with in the blinds. The flop looks dangerous, but he may have totally missed it. He could also have an open ended without a pair.

Once you check and villain bets, again checkraise allin.

I don't see how you can fold this flop.

illegit · #7 10-06-2005, 02:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you can fold this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]This is one of the worst flops i can imagine. I don't like how I played the hand but that doesn't change that this is a terrible flop. There are plenty of flops I like with 88 heads up in a blinds confrontation. This isn't one of them. Only turn card I really like is a 7. And there are few raise CALLING hands this flop misses. He's re-raising with the AK/KK/QQ/AQ type hands. This flop is square in the wheelhouse of a raise calling hand. Only pairs smaller than mine missed this flop. Every big connector hit it HARD.

illegit · #8 10-06-2005, 02:23 AM

Just for fun my outs against a bunch of hands

KT - 6
99 - 8 (redraw possible)
JJ - 8 (redraw possible)
TT - 8 (redraw possible)
QT - 7 (redraw possible)
QJ - 7 (redraw possible)
KQ - 0.25 or so
T9 - 8 (redraw possible)
JT - 8 (redraws possible)
QQ - 6 (redraw possible)
AQ - 7 (redraw possible)
AcQc - 56% favorite over me
AcKc - 60/40 favorite over me
AA - 8
KK - 8

Some of those are more likely holdings than others but against a good portion of his range I have about 6.5-7 outs on average and when redraws are considered my equity isn't great on average.

BTW I think this is a great spot to be mega-aggro on a short or medium stack.

kuro · #9 10-06-2005, 05:40 AM

I push preflop. You've got massive folding equity because of the two shorter stacks and the difference in payout between 2nd and 4th. I don't want to give villain a chance to push in to me if I raise.

betgo · #10 10-06-2005, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you can fold this flop.

[/ QUOTE ] This is one of the worst flops i can imagine. I don't like how I played the hand but that doesn't change that this is a terrible flop. There are plenty of flops I like with 88 heads up in a blinds confrontation. This isn't one of them. Only turn card I really like is a 7. And there are few raise CALLING hands this flop misses. He's re-raising with the AK/KK/QQ/AQ type hands. This flop is square in the wheelhouse of a raise calling hand. Only pairs smaller than mine missed this flop. Every big connector hit it HARD.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know villain has a big connector? He flat called a raise from the SB in the BB. He doesn't have complete junk and he doesn't have a standard raising hand that is not a big pair. That is all we know. He could have a smaller pp, a small suited connector/gapper, Ax, or Kx.

There is a good chance both of your straight odds are good and you may be ahead with your pair. Don't think of the worst possible hand villain can have.

Just push on a semibluff. If you are not ahead, you have outs, and villain may fold. There is too much money in the pot to fold.