$10+$1 Rebuy AK hand

durron597 · #1 07-20-2005, 12:27 AM

Hand from $10+$1 rebuy on stars 25k guaranteed. I am not Hero in this hand, another 2+2er who's play I respect is. He knows I am posting this. I disagreed with his turn check, but comments on all streets appreciated. My thoughts later, except to say that Villian had just moved to the table.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

UTG (Villian) (t18550)
UTG+1 (t14478)
MP1 (t8850)
MP2 (t13335)
MP3 (t7875)
CO (t22022)
Button (t6090)
Hero (t21173)
BB (t13787)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG (Villian) calls t200, 2 folds, MP2 calls t200, 3 folds, Hero raises to t1000, 1 fold, UTG (Villian) calls t800, MP2 calls t800.

Flop: (t3200) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Villian checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: (t3200) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Villian checks, MP2 checks.

River: (t3200) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t2500, Villian raises to t17525, MP2 folds, Hero calls t15025.

Final Pot: t38250

kasey2004 · #2 07-20-2005, 12:34 AM

I dont like the turn check at all. If he has a set here i go broke end of story.

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Kasey [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Lloyd · #3 07-20-2005, 01:06 AM

I don't know if he checked the turn because he was afraid of a set or if he was trying to induce a bet. I think if he bets and neither player can beat top pair then they'll fold - very little upside to betting other than protecting his hand versus a straight/flush draw or 2 outer. But there's also very little upside to checking as nobody will bet at this point if they don't have at least top pair. So all things considered I think a bet of around 1600 is in order. If raised, serious thought could be given to folding as you've clearly represented top pair. Whether or not you should fold, of course, depends on how tricky the opponent is.

durron597 · #4 07-20-2005, 01:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if he checked the turn because he was afraid of a set or if he was trying to induce a bet. I think if he bets and neither player can beat top pair then they'll fold - very little upside to betting other than protecting his hand versus a straight/flush draw or 2 outer. But there's also very little upside to checking as nobody will bet at this point if they don't have at least top pair. So all things considered I think a bet of around 1600 is in order. If raised, serious thought could be given to folding as you've clearly represented top pair. Whether or not you should fold, of course, depends on how tricky the opponent is.

[/ QUOTE ]

So given all of this, what do you put Villian on at the river?

baronzeus · #5 07-20-2005, 01:34 AM

KJ

durron597 · #6 07-20-2005, 01:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
KJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Would KJ check that flop? Anyway, is that what you put him on because I asked the question or what you really think he has? Do you seriously fold this river??

Lloyd · #7 07-20-2005, 01:57 AM

55, 22, and many hands we're ahead of. I don't see Kx checking the turn or Jx checking the flop. JJ is a possibility but I think he'd bet the turn (as I think he would 55 or 22). It's a tough question but I think we're ahead of his range here.

durron597 · #8 07-20-2005, 08:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
55, 22, and many hands we're ahead of. I don't see Kx checking the turn or Jx checking the flop. JJ is a possibility but I think he'd bet the turn (as I think he would 55 or 22). It's a tough question but I think we're ahead of his range here.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a very bizarre push, isn't it? Why would a guy with a hand like JT or QJ push the river? Why not just call, if he doesn't believe we have a King.

If he's not a complete idiot, he knows we can't call the river without some sort of King. Thus he must be trying to make better hands fold, OR he can beat a lone king.

Maybe he has a hand like 88, and thinks we might have a hand like TT and will fold to the push?

So really there are two possibilities to be considered.

1) He's a total idiot, and could be pushing a hand like K9s for value.
2) He's not a total idiot. If this is true, what do we beat? KQs? If he has the case King, why didn't he bet the turn?

nsj · #9 07-20-2005, 09:24 AM

It's a very bizarre hand. I would think JK, 22, 55 would start value betting by the turn, even on a fairly drawless board (except for the hearts.)

Other possible holding is a bad bluff with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

Because Hero's turn check is a little unusual, Villain might have difficulty putting him on trips kings. Without a good read, I'd be a very confused hero here, but I think trips kings is good most of the time here.

Lloyd · #10 07-20-2005, 09:29 AM

It definitely feels like he's trying to push us off the hand. Since we checked the turn he has a hard time putting us on a K and now he's trying to represent a K even though we think he wouldn't have played the hand this way if he really did have a K. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] This is either part of the problem with checking the turn, or part of the brilliance of checking the turn - outcome specific of course!