100 200 preflop

[catlover]

UTG is a fish. VPIP 47%, PFR 17%. Based on these stats, it looks like even though he is a fish, he generally has a good hand when he raises. (Keep in mind that 100 200 is often short handed.) I haven't watched too carefully, but I imagine he plays badly after the flop.

MP2 is a wild man. VPIP 30%, PFR 22%. I have frequently seen him make preflop raises and reraises with what I would consider inadequate values. However, he plays well after the flop.

With this background, what do you think of my play?

PokerStars 100/200 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>

[JihadOnTheRiver]

If it were the SB that three bet, this would be easier, but I think capping the flop OOP against two opponents with a hand that most books tell you to beware of to even one raise is pretty tough.

I think that the worst part of this particular situation is something that I end up getting myself in trouble with a lot. You have said that you "imagine" UTG plays poorly after the flop while you say that MP2 plays well after the flop. So now what if you hit the flop for TPGK? You could end up simultaneously trying to outplay UTG post flop and giving MP2's bets/calls less credit than they deserve, as you will expect him to make plays at pots.

I end up doing this to myself often, and end up cursing at the river. I'm interested in the potential debate, but FWIW, I would probably lay it down PF, almost solely because of my weak read on UTG's postflop play.

-Jihad

[flawless_victory]

i would much much rather call two here...
why would you want the lead in this spot?

[catlover]

When it is 3 bets to me and I haven't acted yet, I treat it as a cap-or-fold situation. There are two reasons for this:

1) sometimes a cap will force out the original raiser.
2) cold calling gives away too much information.

That said, it is worth reexamining this philosophy with this particular initial raiser. Someone who limps in as much as this guy does is not going to be sophisiticated enough to fold to the cap. However, my second reason still remains.

I also still think folding was a reasonable option for me here. But it's tough to do with the 3-bettor being so wild.

[JasonP530]

Someone who is 47/17 isnt folding for 2 more, he is hardly folding anyways. You dont give your hand away if you cold call out of the blind. You could have a pocket pair or AJ/AQ/AK. It just means you dont have J8s for 2 more. Its going to be tough to have both players not make a hand, not make a move on you and not call you down, when you are leading at the pot the whole time. I think you are better off representing a wider range of hands and trying to take it away from the postflop if thats what you want to do.

[mike l.]

"trying to take it away from the postflop"

there's not going to be any taking it away postflop going on here. bottom line is KQs is usually the best starting hand here and should be played as such. thus you cap preflop and start getting money in right away.

[Jeffage]

Doubt you're right on this. One of them doesn't have ace high or a pair?

Jeff

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
bottom line is KQs is usually the best starting hand here and should be played as such. thus you cap preflop and start getting money in right away.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think subfallen is right on this one. Against someone raising UTG 7handed with PFR 17% and someone 3betting with PFR 22% KQs is at best breakeven.

Problem is that one of them will much more often dominate you then you will dominate them.

I agree that if u always cap/fold in these spots u give away less information then if u sometimes caps and sometimes coldcalls but if u coldcall a cap/not cap from the other 2 players gives u back some information, information that is good to have because u want to know if u are up against AK, AQ, AA-QQ. (I guess PFR 22% at least caps AQs)

[TStoneMBD]

i would have capped as well. its better than coldcalling against players who you are unfamiliar with postflop.

[J.A.Sucker]

I wish I had money to burn like this.