55 - Party 15/30 - All decisions bad?

Sully · #1 09-15-2005, 04:01 PM

I have been going through some hand histories to find out why I have been breakeven for the past 40k hands. Here is a hand where I could use some help.

After 60 hands of info, villain is 21.6 / 20 / 1.54

At the time I played the hand, I can't honestly say whether or not I was aware of that (could be the answer for my bad play right there).

Full table 15/30

Three folds to me in Late middle position, and I raise with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Villain raises on button, and blinds fold. I call. ??

Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
I check and call.

Turn is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
I check and fold.

When I look at this hand, I honestly can't believe that I play like that. But there it is in black and white.

In general, I am starting to think that I am guilty of being way too aggressive with position, and way too weak without position.

Fix me, please.

stoxtrader · #2 09-15-2005, 04:08 PM

I think your play on that hand is fine.

ElSapo · #3 09-15-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think your play on that hand is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I tend to feel like he should either simply check-fold the flop or try and take control. He can't call trying to spike, and so they key is whether or not his opponent will bet big unpaired cards again on the turn. And since we don't know that (as he said, he may not have known his stats at the time), we're basically calling the flop hoping he checks the turn.

Nightwish · #4 09-15-2005, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think your play on that hand is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I tend to feel like he should either simply check-fold the flop or try and take control. He can't call trying to spike, and so they key is whether or not his opponent will bet big unpaired cards again on the turn. And since we don't know that (as he said, he may not have known his stats at the time), we're basically calling the flop hoping he checks the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what I was going to say. I think check-folding the flop is much better than check-calling with the intention of check-folding the turn. I don't see a reason for wasting that 1 SB.

Sully · #5 09-15-2005, 11:39 PM

Stox;

I'm also surprised that you said this...I just can't believe that this is optimal. I think the other poster said it best - either I need to fold the flop, or decide that I'm going to take control somehow....either check-raising the flop or turn.

This just seems way too weak, and a waste of a small bet on the flop. Would you really play it this way?

ALL1N · #6 09-15-2005, 11:41 PM

Trying to take control of the hand is the worst thing you could do. If he's the type to check behind AK/AJ on the turn, then your play is the best. If he's not, then checkfold the flop. Your hand is simply not even close to strong enough to take the lead.

Sully · #7 09-16-2005, 01:11 AM

I'm not quite following. I never see a three bet check a flop like this on the button.

ALL1N · #8 09-16-2005, 01:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not quite following. I never see a three bet check a flop like this on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's the type to check behind AK/AJ on the turn, then your play is the best

DeeJ · #9 09-16-2005, 08:05 AM

I still hate low pockets which miss.

Preflop I also call (getting an immediate 6.66:1 to hit my set).

I fold the flop because the pot is too small and villain will have AT/AQ/better pair as often as he has something I beat. There are 3 overcards on the board and the turn will likely bring another. I have no position and no draw.

I fold.

Sure, I may be good already but frankly I don't like the price it costs me to see.

stoxtrader · #10 09-16-2005, 10:20 AM

you mean you don't have odds to draw to 2 outs here? ha. Check calling the flop is a relatively cheap way to find out if he is bluffing (some of the time). Calling the turn also is bad poker,

But what about the times the turn goes check/check? AKo is certainly a 3 betting hand and card frequency means "relatively" likely on this board. You can catually attempt a "solution" for this exact hand if you could define his 3 betting standards, and take a guess at whether he would make a second continuation bet on the turn or not. (plug-in the assumption that he bets flop 100% regardless of whether it helped him). I have a suspicion if you do that math you may find a flop check-fold, but not positive.

Add that to the 4% of the time you turn a set and it's not as clear cut.