Some older hands (long)

Yerma · #1 12-21-2005, 06:00 AM

I was reviewing an old Paradise 2-4 transcript (100 hands) and came across a few hands where my current line of play is different than what it used to be. I hid my actions from myself and tried to guess what I was about to do. So, are these changes for the better?

Hand 1:
Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.


Nowadays, I would *always* check-raise this in a short-handed field. I think this is a change for the better. Anyone prefer the bet?


River: (5.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

Hand 2:
Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.


Nowadays, I would call here. I had a very strong bias against hands that did not play multiway in a multiway pot. I may still fold KJo here, but not KQo. I'm guessing a large percentage of this forum subscribes to raising with the KQo here? I think at least seeing the flop with KQo is also a change for the better?


Hand 3:
Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (9 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO folds, SB calls.


I may not take a shot against this many players with 99 here. And if I choose to, it's probably my last bet into the pot without improvement. Since this bet looks a little
suicidal, and the follow-up bet I made on the turn looks no better, I think that slowing down is a change for the better?


Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Hand 4:
Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.


When I was reviewing this hand, I had serious troubles deciding whether to bet or check here. The bet should end the hand if BB has little, and protects the hand against a J or Q falling. There is also some protection against BB filling up a small pocket pair on the river, and maybe charges BB in case he has a flush draw. But a check may induce a bluff. Also, it may be a statistically weak idea to try and protect this small of a pot against a lone opponent.

Finally, I decided that I would probably bet because BB may call down with a much weaker hand, suspecting a weak steal raise. I think this is the most complicated decision in the transcript and I'm not sure which way it really should be played.


River: (3.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

Hand 5:
Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.


I fold this against most players these days. It seems pretty obvious to me right now that this should have been a fold since I may be bluffing with as few as 3 outs + running flush outs. Anyone call here?


Turn: (5.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

Str8Fish · #2 12-21-2005, 10:56 AM

Hand 1: No, I wouldn't always check-raise this. You're the one who showed aggression on the flop by betting. Chances are on that scary board that they'll just check straight to the river and you've lost yourself bets.

Hand 2: Raising KQo on the button is what I do. You want to eliminate the blinds and isolate yourself to the weaker opponents who limped in. Nobody raised up to you, so chances are, you have a strong hand. Plus, you have equity with KQo, so getting as many bets in there as you can preflop is beneficial.

Hand 4, I would bet the turn. If he check-raises, I call down cause you don't want to end up lookin like a chump to everyone else. If this guy is a calling station, then bet the river. It's completely read-dependent on that one though.

Hand 5, I'd put the guy on a 6 after the turn check. Raising on the flop was a bad idea.

Try posting one hand at a time next time please.

davelin · #3 12-21-2005, 11:47 AM

Hand 1 - This is fine
Hand 2 - Raise pre-flop
Hand 3 - This is fine
Hand 4 - Bet turn
Hand 5 - Not sure if i like the flop raise

Fantam · #4 12-21-2005, 02:25 PM

Thats a lot of hands ! I think a few of them might have generated a reasonable thread on their own.

Anyway my thoughts are:

Hand 1:
The pot is small and there are no flush or straight draws on the flop. Also the kicker to the paired 7's on the flop is low.

Normally I would play trips fast on the flop, particularly if the kicker on the flop was high, such as an A. However, I would consider slowplaying by checking this flop.

Although you have a lot of opponents, this flop was unlikely to have hit many of your opponents. If one of them bet, you could then raise. Also it doesnt look too dangerous to allow a possible free card on this flop.

Hand 2:
Raising preflop is fine for the reasons already suggested.

However, with 3 players having already called, I dont think that also calling preflop would be terrible. I definitely would not have folded though.

Hand 3:
This hand looks difficult. I wouldnt have minded limping in preflop.

With 2 players calling your flop bet, I would suspect that one of them probably does have an A. So, I dont think that I would have bet the turn.

Hand 4:
There is some merit to checking the turn, to try to induce a bluff on the river by your opponent.

However, as you noticed your hand was vulnerable if a J or Q fell. So, I think that betting the turn seemed the best option.

Hand 5:
I dont mind your raising the flop to play back at your opponent, if you think that you may be able to make him fold.

However, having raised the flop, I think that you were almost then committed to betting the turn, when your opponent checked. That may have allowed you to win the pot.

I wouldnt get too carried away with making plays as aggressive as these though, unless you feel that you have a good read on your opponent.