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  #1  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:30 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

i'm leaving poker for a while (for good?) but I just wanted to depart with a bit of advice for some of you guys playing the .25/.5 nl game. i hope this is helpful advice both for those struggling with these games and those hoping to move up.

the main thing that it seems like this forum has always had a problem with is getting value out of your good hands. this really, really, really needs to be driven in. you guys need to realize that when you flop a monster against someone elses overpair, you are taking all their money. when they flop a set against you, they will take it back. this is called poker. worrying about it at these levels is, with rare exception, a serious waste of time.

the money made in ssnl is from people overplaying dominated hands, especially preflop and when oop. if it seems close, bet. if it seems close, call. simply by virtue of preflop hand selection and positional agression you will have better hands almost always when money goes in and you will always get good action. playing in such a way so as to get only two bets in postflop with tptk or better is often leaving money on the table (though there are obvious exceptions such as KK2 or 678 flop holding AA).

those times you find yourself OOP with ak and an a flop? oh well. happens to everyone. that money is just trading hands. you might be asking yourself "but shouldnt folding strong but non-nut hands be a skill i should be working on?" my answer is: of course. but at the same time, by not playing these hands agressively you will develop very poor habbits at higher levels. its also the only way to develop your game in the more difficult situations, because by playing weakly and passively with top pair you also implicitly abandom the smaller pots that are to be won here.
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:33 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

While I will disagree with you on a few of your points, I think I speak for everyone that we wish you the best of luck and that you'll be missed.
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  #3  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:43 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

[ QUOTE ]
While I will disagree with you on a few of your points,

[/ QUOTE ]

im interesting in hearing more on this. i personally have seen my tptk be good frequently enough to make bet, bet, bet (or alternatively bet, bet, check against agressive players on drawish boards)look very attractive against uknowns.
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  #4  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:56 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While I will disagree with you on a few of your points,

[/ QUOTE ]

im interesting in hearing more on this. i personally have seen my tptk be good frequently enough to make bet, bet, bet (or alternatively bet, bet, check against agressive players on drawish boards)look very attractive against uknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying is that I don't see the instances where you have AA and he makes a set as a situation where you're just going to broke and he would do the same and it's just a time that money is changing hands. If that were the case, then it would ultimately be an neutral EV game. The thing that separates the men from the boys, as it were, is a players ability NOT to go broke in that situation, as much as it is his ability to make the other guy go broke.

Now, I don't disagree with you that there's a problem on these board of people not getting enough value out of their big hands, but I do think that in many of those cases, it really because they are situations where they shouldn't be playing big pots with one pair hands.
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:58 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

[ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying is that I don't see the instances where you have AA and he makes a set as a situation where you're just going to broke and he would do the same and it's just a time that money is changing hands. If that were the case, then it would ultimately be an neutral EV game.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are certainly cituations i fold overpair or tptk. they are situations like kk on a 6789 board and i get raised. or ak on an jqa board. my point is that doing anything but value betting when nothing but a set or two pair beats you is wrong in most situations. tptk is a pretty big hand in these games.
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  #6  
Old 12-16-2005, 08:01 AM
GrunchCan GrunchCan is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

xorbie -

Thanks for everything. You've been great for the forum, and your advice was always good reading.

I hope that whatever the circumstances that find you leaving poker are not bad, and that we'll see you again in the future if you choose.

Take care,

John
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  #7  
Old 12-16-2005, 08:02 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying is that I don't see the instances where you have AA and he makes a set as a situation where you're just going to broke and he would do the same and it's just a time that money is changing hands. If that were the case, then it would ultimately be an neutral EV game.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are certainly cituations i fold overpair or tptk. they are situations like kk on a 6789 board and i get raised. or ak on an jqa board. my point is that doing anything but value betting when nothing but a set or two pair beats you is wrong in most situations. tptk is a pretty big hand in these games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not necessarily saying that it's wrong to value bet, value bet, value bet, but I think that in these games, you see a lot more loose calls than aggressive bets and that you really need to slow down to any type of pressure.
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  #8  
Old 12-16-2005, 08:03 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

[ QUOTE ]

I hope that whatever the circumstances that find you leaving poker are not bad, and that we'll see you again in the future if you choose.


[/ QUOTE ]

nothing terrible, im just wasting too much time and energy playing this game for the time being. its not fun or profitable for me to play atm.
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  #9  
Old 12-16-2005, 08:48 AM
Morrek Morrek is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

Good luck with whatever you do man, you taught me/us alot on these forums, thanks for everything
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  #10  
Old 12-16-2005, 09:16 AM
Mercman572 Mercman572 is offline
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Default Re: A brief bit about the SS 6 max games

Hey man, good luck. I don't know how much you've realized it but reading yours and TWP's (and sometimes Soah's) advice and threads has done more in these last 2-3 months for my game so quickly that it's astonishing to me looking back.
I see where you're coming from (I'm a soph at school and alot of times I question if it's worth it); often you just wonder if there are better ways to spend your time and if you're really making enough money to make all of this worth it. Hopefully you'll be back. I know for me when I'm burning out a couple of weeks off and a slow return always reinvigorates my interest.

Have a good holiday off (from school and poker) and best wishes. Thanks for your time here.
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