33 in BB...Standard?

TTChamp · #1 10-16-2005, 02:03 AM

I'm in the middle of a downswing and I think I have been calling down too much. Am I a total fish for calling down here?

Button is TAG. He plays tighter than most short handed so his button raise has more signifigance than the average 4 handed button raise.

Absolute 2/4, 4 handed

Hero is BB with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

PF: 1 fold, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls

Flop(4.5 SB):J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls

Turn(3.2 BB):8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls

River(5 BB): 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets with the intention of folding to a raise

Stefan_K · #2 10-16-2005, 03:10 AM

i never play it like this, people betfold more than i do on the river, but im not sure this is the spot

anyway i checkrais this flop and bet the turn

slik · #3 10-16-2005, 03:57 AM

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i never play it like this, people betfold more than i do on the river, but im not sure this is the spot

anyway i checkrais this flop and bet the turn

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yes. or play as you did and donk the turn. i'd hate to bet fold river when i could get to showdown with the same price -- especially with the only hands you beating being 22 and no pair hands.

#4 10-16-2005, 06:21 AM

If you are ahead on the flop, many things can come to beat you given the button's hand range. Because of that, id either lead the flop or c/r the flop. However, if the button likes to semibluff-raise or bluff-raise, I'd c/r the flop, since if he raises my bet on the flop I have no idea where I am. If he 3-balls my c/r on the flop, I'd tend to fold (but that could change depending on how he plays his made hands and draws)

Generally on the turn for me here its bet/fold.

GetThere1Time · #5 10-16-2005, 07:06 AM

Why not 3-bet preflop if you're going to play this hand. It gives you the initiative here and you have a little something to showdown.

I suppose you can just call and c/r a favorable flop but its hard to tell what a favorable flop is against a steal. Most turn cards are going to be ugly on the J7x board, given button's range, and will probably put you in tough spots on the turn and river. I would just check/fold this flop and wait for a better board to do this on like Kxx, or a paired flop, more ragged flop, etc.

TTChamp · #6 10-16-2005, 02:29 PM

I agree that c/r the flop or donking flop or turn is a good line. The problem I have with executing that line is that I feel like I frequently get called and then I'm left with a decision to call a bet on the river. If I take one of the lines you recommend what is the river plan? I'm guessing check/fold.

My thinking at the time was that villian would bet the flop and turn pretty much no matter what so I thought that this line got me to the showdown relatively cheaply.

As for the river, I thought about it some more and I think you are right. He checks behind with a lot of hands that beat me and he might bet a hand like KQ out of desparation.

TTChamp · #7 10-16-2005, 04:48 PM

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Why not 3-bet preflop if you're going to play this hand. It gives you the initiative here and you have a little something to showdown.

I suppose you can just call and c/r a favorable flop but its hard to tell what a favorable flop is against a steal. Most turn cards are going to be ugly on the J7x board, given button's range, and will probably put you in tough spots on the turn and river. I would just check/fold this flop and wait for a better board to do this on like Kxx, or a paired flop, more ragged flop, etc.

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I 3 bet PF with this hand if I am raised from the SB. I don't like to do it when I don't have position.

If I 3 bet PF and then he caps is the the plan to fold to any flop where I don't hit a set?

What about if I 3 bet and then I bet out on the flop and he calls? Check/fold the turn? Bet/fold the turn?

I find it interesting that you think a board with a K is better than a board with a jack. I would think that a stealer (especially this opponent) would be more likely to have a King in his hand than a jack. I do see what you mean with the turn being ugly given the board.

I still don't know what the best way to play this hand is. I'm starting to think that it is calling PF, donking the flop, and then not putting in another bet unless I hit a set.

scotty34 · #8 10-16-2005, 04:53 PM

This is really not a good time for WA/WB. If you are ahead, he has way too many outs to play this passive. I think I would usually C/R this flop and lead out the turn.

scotty34 · #9 10-16-2005, 04:55 PM

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Why not 3-bet preflop if you're going to play this hand. It gives you the initiative here and you have a little something to showdown.

I suppose you can just call and c/r a favorable flop but its hard to tell what a favorable flop is against a steal. Most turn cards are going to be ugly on the J7x board, given button's range, and will probably put you in tough spots on the turn and river. I would just check/fold this flop and wait for a better board to do this on like Kxx, or a paired flop, more ragged flop, etc.

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Why is a Kxx board better for you than a Jxx rainbow board?

If you are going to check-fold flops like this, you might as well fold preflop. This is a reasonably good board for 33.

GetThere1Time · #10 10-16-2005, 05:00 PM

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If I 3 bet PF and then he caps is the the plan to fold to any flop where I don't hit a set?

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It depends. You say this guy is tight so I don't think he'll be capping cheese, so yes. Most of the time he's not going to cap without the goods. He might cap a little lighter than normal but whatever he caps he's probably beating 3s.

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I find it interesting that you think a board with a K is better than a board with a jack. I would think that a stealer (especially this opponent) would be more likely to have a King in his hand than a jack. I do see what you mean with the turn being ugly given the board.

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I mean the same thing I mean that the turn will be ugly given his range. On a Kxx flop a 9, 8, 7 is coordinates the board less. On a Jxx flop, not only does any broadway improve your opponents hand/draw, a 9, 8, or 7 might as well making the hand difficult for you to play on the turn and river.

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I still don't know what the best way to play this hand is. I'm starting to think that it is calling PF, donking the flop, and then not putting in another bet unless I hit a set.

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I don't think this is the right way to go about things. You're either going to get raised most of the time, sometimes with a hand you're beating, or the TAG is going to peel one and likely bet the turn with anything when you check.