On SSHE: A Discussion of the "Mystery Turn Raise"

[ZenMusician]

Here you are:

(Your venue here) 2/4 LHE

No reads, posting in BB

Hero is dealt (A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])

3 Folds, MP2 calls, fold, HJ calls, fold, Button calls, fold, Hero Raises,
MP3 calls, HJ calls, Button calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets, MP2 calls, fold, Button calls

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero bets, MP2 Raises, fold, Hero <font color="red">???</font>

----------------------------------------------

Here is the sort of question I see most of all in Micro &amp; SS.

A.) What line loses the least when behind / makes most when ahead?
B.) Given no reads, what is standard. How about a TAG, LP, LAG?
C.) What is the range of hands for MP2 and what does this raise mean?

This could be a useful FAQish thread for SSHE players. Discuss.

-ZEN

[shant]

Here's my play for all the cases:

Readless: Call down.
LP: Call down.
TAG: Call down.
LAG: 3-bet.

Readless I can't put a player on a hand for obvious reasons. For an LP player it could be a K or 2-pair or a set or who knows but I call down. I can't put the TAG on a limped K, but TAG doesn't always mean a good player, so this could be a set of 5's or QTs, I've seen both. The LAG is the easiest to 3-bet because they'd do this with any K or sometimes a 3 or sometimes 8-high.

Let's see:
A) With no read, I think call, check/call - but perhaps I'm being too passive... something I'm trying to fix by posting/reading here. Trying to think more aggressively - maybe call, bet/fold is the right move standard move.
B) Against a TAG, would anyone even consider folding the turn raise?? Again, maybe I'm just too passive.
Against a LAG, maybe more likely to call, check/call
C) MP2 possible hands:
TAG: A3s, 22, 33, 44, 55, A5s.
LAG: Above hands &amp; 25s, 24s, 34s, 35s or any two/bluff

[Alex/Mugaaz]

LOL, I more or less juist posted this exact same question.

LP: Call down. You're ahead/have hidden outs often enough and it's HU. But I seriously doubt you're ahead often enough to want more money to go in.

LAG/TAG: Call then donk/call vs most. 3-bet vs donkish LAGs and call down vs TAGs on the solid side of things. I know I often raise marginal hands w/showdown value from MP2s spot (intending to fold to a 3-bet). It costs the same as two calls and will give villian a chance to fold a hand that can outdraw me.

[@bsolute_luck]

i usually reraise a frequent amount of time unless read is: "only raises with better than TP" but the hand described is very ragged and tough to put someone on A3 or trips just because they raise here. Ace-high might do this or A5 or 88-66 as well.

[ZenMusician]

How many times is horrid opposition showing K5s/K5o etc
to make 3-betting profitable? Perhaps a stat/math person
would like to prove that 3-betting a wide hand range in this
situation is +EV. For what it's worth, I get shown 2 raggedy
pair here what seems like &gt;60% at this level.

-ZEN

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
How many times is horrid opposition showing K5s/K5o etc
to make 3-betting profitable? Perhaps a stat/math person
would like to prove that 3-betting a wide hand range in this
situation is +EV. For what it's worth, I get shown 2 raggedy
pair here what seems like &gt;60% at this level.

-ZEN

[/ QUOTE ]

I see stuff like KQ/KJ TT more often the higher I played.

[Scuba Chuck]

This is not advice. I'm taking a stab at understanding the hand as played.

The hands I would begin to think about are K5, 45, 55, or A3. I feel strongest towards thinking that our villain has 45 for some reason. I'd certainly call down hoping I have 8 (or 9) outs. Perhaps the way to maximize return is to raise the river if an A/K/2 hits, and fold to a reraise.

I was wondering how people would play this if you were in the same situation but you have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and you checked on the BB p/f instead of raised?

Do you fold to a turn raise in this spot against a player with no reads or would you even play the flop differently?