My Head is Still Spinning

[Lestat]

Online Party 30-60. My stats on sb thru 650 hands are 20.3/11.9/1.71 and seems to play well.

Cutoff raises, sb calls, I make it 3 bets from the bb with JJ.

Flop comes 663 with two diamonds. sb checks, I bet, they both call.

Turn is an off A. sb checks, I bet, cutoff folds, sb check/raises. I'm suspicious he doesn't have an ace and re-raise. He calls.

The river is another 6. He checks, I check. I lose to KK.

Was I outplayed? Never mind. Of course I was.

[ QUOTE ]
Online Party 30-60. My stats on sb thru 650 hands are 20.3/11.9/1.71 and seems to play well.

Cutoff raises, sb calls, I make it 3 bets from the bb with JJ.

Flop comes 663 with two diamonds. sb checks, I bet, they both call.

Turn is an off A. sb checks, I bet, cutoff folds, sb check/raises. I'm suspicious he doesn't have an ace and re-raise. He calls.

The river is another 6. He checks, I check. I lose to KK.

Was I outplayed? Never mind. Of course I was.

[/ QUOTE ]s
This is a very suspicious checkraise. Once you bet the turn and the CO folds, the small blind has you all to himself and if hes smart he knows that the chances of you having an ace is much lower since an ace now hit the board. Many players would make this play with a flush draw or a lower pocket pair trying to get you to fold. I would not fold the turn and I would either call down or raise the turn and check the river as you did. Generally speaking if I have a hand of some value and I bet the turn and everyone folds to the last guy to act, and he then raises I usually call down if I have no read. Too many people like to take shots at the turn bettor when they know no one else will interfer with their plans, especially if they think the turn bettor is a tight player capable of folding some decent hands. I thought you played the hand well even if you were outplayed

[Lestat]

You don't think I missed a bet on the river do you? I thought about it, but also thought he's got to call down with any hand that's not a draw, since his call on the turn likely means he's giving me a draw.

It's funny, because I thought I made him play fishy in order to beat me. i.e. the only way he can win is to put me on a hand he can beat. But it all goes back to his pre-flop smooth call. That threw me off and he was smart enough to realize it threw me off so he should call. A lot going on for an online hand.

[flawless_victory]

cmon.. youre giving this guy too much credit...
very obvious he thought i have KK! sweet! i will trap and wait for the turn to POP EM! then came the turn, and pop he did... nevermind all the previous action/board texture... he planned to CR the turn the minute he saw his hand... putting three bets in on the turn against a solid player in this situation is poor.
your play was perfect, IMO.

[lil feller]

I love how you played the hand.

I think the SB played preflop well, if he knows you, and the turn horribly.

His c/r induces all 2 outers and dead hands to fold (which a lot of players would do with your hand) and will never get an Ace to fold. IMO is turn c/r is terrible. Thats a move to make with 77 or something, not KK.

lf

[Lestat]

For some reason, I think more in terms of what a guy is likely to do with certain hands, i.e. does he c/r his draws?, etc.

I often wished I was better at getting inside their heads like you seem to be able to with this hand. My way lets me profit; your way lets you pwn!

[Lestat]

<font color="red"> His c/r induces all 2 outers and dead hands to fold (which a lot of players would do with your hand) and will never get an Ace to fold. IMO is turn c/r is terrible. Thats a move to make with 77 or something, not KK. </font>

Excellent points!

[roy_miami]

[ QUOTE ]
I love how you played the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His c/r induces all 2 outers and dead hands to fold (which a lot of players would do with your hand) and will never get an Ace to fold. IMO is turn c/r is terrible. Thats a move to make with 77 or something, not KK.


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't Lestat making the same mistake by 3-betting the turn? The only extra benefit Lestat gets by 3-betting the turn is he may get KK or QQ to fold, which we can't expect villain to have, because as we pointed out, it would be retarded to play KK like this.

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love how you played the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His c/r induces all 2 outers and dead hands to fold (which a lot of players would do with your hand) and will never get an Ace to fold. IMO is turn c/r is terrible. Thats a move to make with 77 or something, not KK.


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't Lestat making the same mistake by 3-betting the turn? The only extra benefit Lestat gets by 3-betting the turn is he may get KK or QQ to fold, which we can't expect villain to have, because as we pointed out, it would be retarded to play KK like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true, however, there are many more hands he could have that leave him with +2 outs to my hand. If not, then he's gotta hate my 3-bet.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love how you played the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His c/r induces all 2 outers and dead hands to fold (which a lot of players would do with your hand) and will never get an Ace to fold. IMO is turn c/r is terrible. Thats a move to make with 77 or something, not KK.


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't Lestat making the same mistake by 3-betting the turn? The only extra benefit Lestat gets by 3-betting the turn is he may get KK or QQ to fold, which we can't expect villain to have, because as we pointed out, it would be retarded to play KK like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain might also law down a weak Ace, and might have a draw. Lestat already said he had no reason to believe that villian didn't have an Ace. That means he's got nothing (which might include a hand with over card outs) or he's got some kind of draw and hero needs to get the most he can.

All factors considered I like the turn 3bet, the only problem is if villian donks the river...

lf