What I Learned This Summer ( really really long)

[imported_stealthcow]

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Very good post, thanks for taking the time.

I agree with the stats somewhat as stats aren't everything. But stats do help identify leaks that otherwise would've taken alot longer to identify.

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i agree that stats do explose leaks. and i use them. and yea, thats helpful. but i dont neccessarily believe that it would take a lot longer to find them. the fact is, you could play 22 as if it was AA and AA like it was 22 and your stats would be the same, but it would obviously be a big leak. i think the biggest leaks players have aren't how many hands they play but how they play them. but fixing how many hands you play is a lot easier.

and i am over emphasizing the other end of the spectrum in that stats are shown way too much on these forums. as an example of where i use stats, my vpip for 5/10 and 10/20 6max are around 25-26/ 20. i talked with another 2+2er whose stats are 29/19 and he is killing the game. so i'm not going to try and just increase how many hands i'm gonna play. i'm gonan ask him what hands he plays with 1 limper in front, or 2 limpers in front, what hands he defends/ completes from sb. etc. i will ask about groups of hands and be specific. that way i learn, and can experiment. the reason i'm adding hands is NOT to mimic his stats, but to mimic situations where he makes profitable plays

i'm glad you guys liked the post.

stealthcow-

[Dan Rutter]

Very nice post

[Bjorn]

To quote Mike Caro:

"If one pro plays twice as many hands as another...
Both may have the same winrate."

As long as you play all the "monster hands" it is much more important to play whatever hands you decide to play correctly than what amount of hands you play. Most of those "extra" hands you play are going to be very small earners (at best) anyway.

/Bjorn

[xCEO]

I liked you post very much, thanks!

[Sykes]

Can someone please sticky this please.

[stinkypete]

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The other played for a month, 8hrs/day and ended up that month down 8k.

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sounds like someone needs to quit poker

[TStoneMBD]

this is a good post and it will help alot of people because its real. people trying to make their way up will learn from people on their way up, so for those people your time spent writing this will be a great help.

however, for your benefit, id like to say that some of your logic in this post is a little jumbled. i dont think anything you said was clearly wrong, but your concepts on certain things you discussed are a little rough on the edges.



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But its more important to realize that if you were a 3bb/100 player and you decided to start folding AJo utg, you would still be a 3bb/100 winner.

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i know what your point was when making this statement, so i dont want to discredit your post on a technicality, but please realize how silly and incorrect this line truly is. always raising or always folding AJo UTG is going to be a horrible standard for many players who fit the "in between" category. as players, we should be trying to understand what table context allows AJo to be profitable in first position and how to recognize that context. there are players who should always be folding this hand UTG and there are players who should always be raising with it (depending on the limit of course). knowing where you stand and how to extract maximum value out of AJo whether you fold or raise with it will certainly alter your long term winrate even if only by a small amount. we are here to push edges and this is an edge that many people are unsure of when and how to push.

however, there is good wisdom in your statement, even if the logic is rough on the edges. fact of the matter is that we are not dealt AJo UTG very often and players spend too much time discussing these concepts rather than learning how to play postflop instead. however, i do hope that when players spend their time discussing whether AJo UTG is profitable or not they realize that they will benefit more from simply contemplating what makes a hand profitable than actually learning how to play this particular situation correctly.


btw, i wish we had met up at turningstone. i just got home today as well but was only there thursday and friday. i didnt really play much tho. you should have drank with us.

[Reef]

Man, I really wish I had more hardcore successful poker players around me. I've only got Rikakazak

[stinkypete]

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Man, I really wish I had more hardcore successful poker players around me.

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[imported_stealthcow]

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always raising or always folding AJo UTG is going to be a horrible standard for many players who fit the "in between" category. as players, we should be trying to understand what table context allows AJo to be profitable in first position and how to recognize that context.


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its funny that you say that. because one of the first things i "learned" at 2+2 is that Ajo utg is always a raise. i never knew why it and not Ato was, or what tables make a difference, i just heard "its profitable", maybe saw some link on pokerroom.com about it, and figured 'well it must be right'.


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btw, i wish we had met up at turningstone. i just got home today as well but was only there thursday and friday. i didnt really play much tho. you should have drank with us.

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yea, i wasn't there for very long, and only during the very beginning, but it would've been cool to meet up. i had some good drunken 1-3 spread with rakein/ drG/ tongni and augi00 which included drG buying a seat from someone else for $10 and some ridiculous hands (hopefully theres a trip report forthcoming).

stealthcow-