clueless

[ethan]

This was about 15 hands into a party 20+2. UTG+1 had yet to raise pf and hadn't done anything noteworthy. MP2 hadn't done much either. Comments on both preflop and flop play appreciated.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: BB (610)
Seat 2: UTG (1840)
Seat 3: UTG+1 (665)
Seat 4: MP1 (625)
Seat 6: MP2 (635)
Seat 7: MP3 (785)
Seat 8: CO (1320)
Seat 9: Button (760)
Seat 10: Hero (760)
Hero posts small blind (15)
BB posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Td, Th ]
UTG folds.
UTG+1 raises (150) to 150
MP1 folds.
MP2 calls (150)
MP3 folds.
CO folds.
Button folds.


I can call for set value only if I'm going to take both their stacks when I hit. UTG+1's raise is big enough that I'll give him credit for a real hand, probably one better than mine. I don't think MP2 is trapping with a better pair than mine. I decide to call and see a flop, and then just to play it by ear. Really, though, I have no idea what my plan is when I do this unless I catch a ten. This is where the "clueless" part comes in. What do you do preflop here? What's your plan for the flop? How confident are you in a TT overpair?

Hero calls (135)
BB folds.

Pot is 480, 3 of us to the flop.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, 4h, 9s ]

Ok, good. Not a set, but otherwise about as good as I'm going to get.

Hero checks.
UTG+1 bets (175)
MP2 calls (175)
Hero raises (610) to 610
Hero is all-In.
UTG+1 calls (340)
UTG+1 is all-In.
MP2 calls (310)
MP2 is all-In.

UTG+1's weak bet gave me the impression I might well be ahead of him, I still didn't think MP2 was trapping, so I pushed. What % of the time am I ahead when they both call me? Also, what's your action if that 9s on the flop is the Js/Qs?

[tigerite]

I'd be less worried if it was a J than a Q, that's for sure. Especially with the context of how you've described the two players. I think MP2 has a set, his smooth call would worry me a lot here.

[stupidsucker]

After a bet and a call, I wouldnt push. someone having JJ, or 99, or even 44, or 22 isnt unlikely. The first better could have between QQ-AA, but I doubt the caller does.

Now a days I am folding this preflop. The chances of J-A board are too high to see a flop and get your moneys worth. Here ayou are on the flop with an overpair and you dont even know how to play it properly. I wouldnt either. Laying down seems so weak on the flop, but I think it is the best move.

[ethan]

I was very close to folding preflop, basically for the reasons you mention. Implied odds were only barely there, and a flopped overpair didn't look great because of the huge pf raise. I just couldn't quite bring myself to get rid of TT, even though it's looking more and more like the smart play. I'd have no trouble tossing 88, and probably 99 preflop. And then that flop bet was so small. With a flush board...wouldn't a better hand than mine bet more? I couldn't hold back my inner LAG.

And then the preflop raiser turned out to have 55, the caller Ah8h, and my hand held up. The A8 didn't much surprise me, but I sure didn't see the 55 coming.