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  #1  
Old 12-09-2005, 02:43 AM
BadBatsuMaru BadBatsuMaru is offline
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Posts: 90
Default common situation: scary turn, almost pot-committed

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Hero (t1140)
CO (t745)
Button (t635)
SB (t2685)
BB (t1025)
UTG (t2465)
MP1 (t1305)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100 (stack left = 1040)</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t85, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls t70.

Flop: (t330) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t200 (stack left = 840)</font>, SB folds, UTG calls t200.

Turn: (t730) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t400 (stack left = 440)</font>, UTG folds.

Final Pot: t1130


So, things worked out just fine, I was just thinking that this is a very good example of a common situation. I flopped top pair and a really good kicker. Actually, maybe it's not that good of an example since there really aren't many hands out there that have any business calling a bet on that flop.

So, the A comes on the turn, and that's kind of scary. The pot is 730, and I have 840 left. I don't feel like it's a good move checking back and trying to induce a bluff to call, maybe letting some random straight draw or middle pair catch up. If I don't bet a significant amount villain may see it as an opportunity to bluff me off my hand. So, I'm thinking 400 was a good amount to bet -- slightly more than half the pot (so hey, I'm not scared of that A) and slightly less than half my stack (so if he check-raises me all-in I can throw it away).

If my stack was any less, I would have to be prepared to just go all-in. If my stack was any more, I wouldn't be so worried that someone was making a move on me if they raised me. Just wondering if this is the way most people handle these situations.
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2005, 02:51 AM
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Default Re: common situation: scary turn, almost pot-committed

Most of us fold preflop...I think I'd go allin on the turn. I can't see how that ace would help villain unless he's calling w/A8. So you would have folded to an allin? Your basically throwing away 700 chips that way... which is why most of us fold preflop.
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Old 12-09-2005, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: common situation: scary turn, almost pot-committed

I just limp behind preflop with this hand. If you did this, the pot would be smaller and easier to play.

I probably would check behind on the turn. I don't like betting half my stack with a plan of folding to a push. You could go all in, but he probably only calls if he has an Ace and you are beat.
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2005, 03:52 AM
BadBatsuMaru BadBatsuMaru is offline
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Default Re: common situation: scary turn, almost pot-committed

[ QUOTE ]
Most of us fold preflop...I think I'd go allin on the turn. I can't see how that ace would help villain unless he's calling w/A8. So you would have folded to an allin? Your basically throwing away 700 chips that way... which is why most of us fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't mean for this to be a pre-flop discussion, but if you want to turn it into that... The UTG guy looked like 90% of people playing 10+1's -- pretty fishy. I can't just go throwing away KQ when it's down to 7-handed because I respect the limp. KQ offsuit is a high-card hand, and there are all the obvious reasons for raising -- position, initiative, get out the blinds... You guys are honestly suggesting something besides raising with KQ 7-handed? I think you're a little confused when you say "most of us fold," because most people aren't mucking KQ 7-handed.

Also, can you explain saying you'd go all-in on the turn? You wait till an overcard hits then you risk all your chips when you'll only get called by a hand that beats you?

I'm not trying to be rude, but your comments don't make any sense.
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2005, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: common situation: scary turn, almost pot-committed

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to be rude, but your comments don't make any sense.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2005, 06:12 AM
pergesu pergesu is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2
Default Re: common situation: scary turn, almost pot-committed

[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel like it's a good move checking back and trying to induce a bluff to call

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not?

Is it because...
[ QUOTE ]
maybe letting some random straight draw or middle pair catch up

[/ QUOTE ]
So he has at most a 5-outer. You're in pretty good shape so far.


[ QUOTE ]
If I don't bet a significant amount villain may see it as an opportunity to bluff me off my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would see it as an opportunity to encourage villain to bluff into me or make a loose call on the river.
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2005, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: common situation: scary turn, almost pot-committed

UTG limped pf and then called your decent sized flop bet. What kind of hand do you put him on? You say he's pretty fishy, but he has the second biggest stack and three players are gone. He must have played a few hands. Has he shown down anything?
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  #8  
Old 12-09-2005, 07:49 AM
patrick dicaprio patrick dicaprio is offline
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Posts: 285
Default Re: common situation: scary turn, almost pot-committed

preflop play is very iffy. why are you raising to get everyone to fold? with small blinds andthose stacks you arent stealing here and will likely be called by many better hands. whats worse is that your raise is too small. with a BB of 30 the guy in the BB is getting just about 2-1 on his call, so he can justify it with any two cards.

without knowing if UTG is a good player or not i think you made a reasonable bet on the turn. the time to worry is if UTG will checkraise a better hand here, thereby possible tying you on to your hand. or if he the type that will bluff a lot on the river merely because you showed weakness then you might check behind. but i think the fact is that most players who hit this A come out betting.

Pat
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