($11) AKs L1 multiway, TPTK checkraised

[FlyWf]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter

UTG (t990)
UTG+1 (t770)
Hero (t760)
MP2 (t760)
MP3 (t950)
CO (t640)
Button (t1885)
SB (t650)
BB (t595)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t70</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t70, Button calls t70, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t55.

Flop: (t290) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, CO folds, Button folds, BB goes allin for 525, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???</font>

The converter didn't like this hand very much at all.

What's the play here? I'm getting like 4:1 on the call and I'm sure I'm seeing lower aces and assorted crap enough to call it profitably, but what really makes this hand bad(to me) is the size of the pot on the flop, and I don't like my line.

Anyway, this situation happens to me fairly often, so my question is more about general principles than this specific hand. Huge multiway pots means no opportunity for error as a PSB is half my stack. Should I be trying to limp with AKs in L1? I limp the pot is only t60 4way, so I can get away from this hand if I'm beat.

[jonoo]

from that early position I will usually limp or make a smaller raise 45-50 in level 1. that way the pot will stay small enough for you to get away if you miss and you only invested about 5% of your stack. but in the spot youre in now I think its a pretty easy call.

[SammyKid11]

Your line is fine, call the push.

[SonnyJay]

Yeah, I too would probably raise about t50, and I'd probably have bet something closer to t200 on the flop, but your line is fine. I'll usually limp AQ UTG, but I feel it's worth raising AKs around 3-4xBB at the $11s.

Of course, once you're in this spot you have to call here. If he's got an ace it's worse than yours unless it's A4, A3, or AA, and if he's got one of those good for him.

-SonnyJay

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, this situation happens to me fairly often, so my question is more about general principles than this specific hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to shallow-stack, fast-structure poker.

You have to find edges where you can, and play them strongly.

Raise pre-flop with AK, bet out if you hit, and call a push.

You're just outsmarting yourself by doing anything else.

My two cents.

[FlyWf]

The larger PF raise than usual was an attempt to get it shorthanded in an attempt to avoid this situation. I hate getting all my money in PF in L1 with TPTK and no draw.

In this situation, the call is easy(it's even profitable against A3. Yay for hidden outs). Betting less on the flop is probably a good idea, but a 200 bet that gets called or raised means I've only got ~500 behind against a 700+ pot. IOW, there's no way I'm getting away on the turn or river. My stack being less than 3x the size of the pot and that flop including an ace makes postflop play extremely simple: the money goes in the middle. Either I'm folding the flop or I'm allin.

Reviewing my actions, I'm thinking that I'm getting away from a set a great deal more often by limping preflop. I don't know if the gain from getting away from sets is worth the equity edge I'm giving up.

Also, in situations such as this perhaps a flop check would coax some money out of midpairs and weak Axs that fold to the leadout. A check also probably lets me get away from the hand if there's a LP bet and a EP c/r.

I am certainly no expert, but I'll offer a couple of options. Keep in mind the only SNGs I play start w/ 1500 chips, so I'm not really qualified:

limp, hoping someone raises and then push (someone correct me if this is not smart) and play cautiously if you end up with a bunch of players on the flop.

Or up your raise a bit. If you're getting 4 callers, it's not enough. You want to play the hand heads-up.

[ QUOTE ]
limp, hoping someone raises and then push (someone correct me if this is not smart) and play cautiously if you end up with a bunch of players on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limp-pushing AKs here seems like a bad idea to me. I don't think you're going to get a raise behind a limp with a worse hand than AK very often (and you'll fold hands you'd rather have in, like AQ, a fair amount of the time when you push), while you're often going to get called by any old pair when you push in the lower buy-ins, and at this blind level you're rarely going to have enough dead money in the pot to make taking the 55-45 dog worth it. Not to mention you'll then have to play out of position if you don't get raised and it'll be harder to know if your TPTK is any good when you get played back at.

Raise it pre-flop first-in, and let anyone with an A cold-call you, and play the flop. Call a raise with it and do likewise, at least until the blinds are big enough to make pushing/raising worth it.

[kyro]

AQ and AJ are so prevalent here. Easy call.