Small Stakes Holdem is online micro-limit book

[Petteri]

I play regularly Party 2/4 $ games online.

I think SSHE(Small stakes Holdem) handles only micro-stakes(up to 1/2 $) games online. Live these are games are usually found in 2/4 $, 3/6 $ and 4/8 $ limits.

Online 2/4 $ is kind of borderline. U.S daytime there are usually not many is any SSHE games around. U.S Evening time there are some. Friday and Saturday nights there are more. From 3/6 $ up online there is usually not many SSHE games available online.

I see Small Stakes Holdem giving wrong impression to many newcomers that SSHE is proper advice for online 2/4 $ or 3/6 $ games. SSHE is good advice only when game is very loose and passive. In 2/4 $ and 3/6 $ level that kind of games are not common anymore.

I think Holdem for Advanced Players and Middle Limit Holdem Poker are best books to learn poker 2/4 $ online and up.

Every experienced player knows that all poker books are just meant to give examples, no specific answers. Everything depends on game conditions.

Most newcomers do not understand nature of poker and think these books talk about the games they say they are.

I think SSHE should be characterized as online micro-limit(up to 1/2 $) book.

Holdem for Advanced Players's and Middle Limit Holdem Poker's main audience is online players on 2/4 $ level and up.

[steamboatin]

You are making a very large mistake. You are describing games according to their limits. Many poker players do the same thing but you are setting yourself up to be confused and it is clear from this post that you have become confused.

Yes, the title of the book fosters this type of thinking but the title is intended to help sell books so there is some poetic license allowed. SSH applies to games where to many people see the flop and they go to far with their hands. The actual limit doesn't matter.

To come out and make a sweeping statement that SSH only applies to microlimits is just wrong and it shows that you are thinking incorrectly. Think about the game texture. How many people are seeing the flop? How many people are calling raises? How many people see the river?

I am going to make an assumption that english is not your primary lanquage and maybe this post didn't come out exactly like you wanted.

[Petteri]

My point is that advice SSHE gives is suitable for games which are loose and passive both pre-flop and post-flop.

Let's say you have i.e. mix of 5 LPPs, 2 TAGs and 2 sLAPs and no maniacs, VPIP% is 40 % or over, PFR is under 5 % and post-flop aggression very low. I very rarely find such fish ponds in Party 2/4 $ level.

I think SSHE does not tell clearly enough what kind of games it is written for. SSHE also gives impression that 2/4 $ and 3/6 $ online games are best playground for SSHE. That could have been case when the book was written, but not anymore. I think it is very common misunderstanding that SSHE would be best book to learn 2/4 $ or 3/6 $ limit.

On the other Holdem for Advanced Players and Middle Limit Holdem Poker talk about Middle Stakes Poker. When they mostly speak about games were most of players have some idea of poker.

[johnnybeef]

It's funny because I have played The Wynn's 4/8 and 8/16 game. The 8/16 game had roughly 5 players to a flop. The 4/8 was a chopfest.

[amulet]

ssh is a great book and will help in any game. the advice applies "best" to loose games. in today's poker world that can go pretty high. i have watched 20/40 and 40/80 games that would fit the advice perfectly. and i have played in 100/200 games that can become that loose too. at the limits you are playing i think you have nothing to worry about for a long time. additionally, since the book is so good, the advice will help you in any game.

[Hallett]

As it seems online poker has become tighter over the last while, I have done a bit of a study about how loose Party is, compared to when I started playing online. I wanted to compare this to the local B&M games, where I play 6/12 or 4/8, and frequently see 4 or 5 people seeing the flop.

My conclusion is that SSH is wonderful for loose games. These games are common live, up to limits that are in fact not small stakes at all. I am not a regular in the 10/20 or 15/30 games in my local B&M, but by watching I can tell that the book applies. Online poker is now quite a bit tighter at the big sites, and with less people seeing the flop, and less people making mistakes, SSH is not as applicable. Still vital reading, but it does not describe the online game. If fairness to Ed, I don't think he wrote this book to be a bible for 2/4 online Partyers. The games he wrote the book for are live.

Below is a brief outline of my results, copied from a post of mine at another site.


In the entire time I have played online at Party, I have played in excess of 76,00 hands at .50/1.00. I was interested to go back and look at the average number of players seeing the flop, as a measure of how tight/loose the games are. It was interesting.

In December of 2003, I played just under 1K hands. ASF = 48.87% (Holy cow!!!)

In Septeber of 2005, I played 2,700 hands. ASF = 33.05%

Globally, since I started at Party, the average is 39.8%, and as you can see, it is going DOWN.

As a comparable, I have played 1,300 hands at Pacific, and ASF = 44.59

I was expecting something like this, but the magnitude of this is really a shock.

[BarronVangorToth]

You will often find games live at the $10-$20 and $20-$40 level where SSH is still 100% on the money.

Plus, it has advice for looser and tighter tables.

HEPFAP is great material as well, but as someone put it (Clarkmeister, I think?), the title almost should be Hold 'em Poker AGAINST Advanced Players - and the truly advanced ones aren't playing in the slums with the rest of us at the 5/10 - 10/20 - and 20/40 games live.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[George Rice]

Finally got around to reading some of SSHE and I can assure you that I rarely play in a 20/40 game where this wouldn't be good advise. Sometimes the 40/80 games too. And I mean both online and B&M.


20/40 plays like the 3/6 games of several years ago.

[Stork]

The concepts in SSH are valid in all games, and are more important than the specific examples and hand charts.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]


In December of 2003, I played just under 1K hands. ASF = 48.87% (Holy cow!!!)

In Septeber of 2005, I played 2,700 hands. ASF = 33.05%



[/ QUOTE ]

This is true at most of the online limits, and I don't think very many people recognize what a significant change this is.