9th Circuit Decision Regarding Children and Sex

[elwoodblues]

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Does anyone think that parents have a Constitutional Right to force the school to not teach evolution? [ QUOTE ]
Not through the courts.

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It sounds like you don't (or shouldn') disagree with the 9th circuit. You have the right to vote like-minded school board members in, create petitions, withhold donations...but the federal courts aren't the arbiters of what is "good" curriculum.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Wouldn't you agree that if you send your kid to public school, you don't have the right to start picking and choosing what parts of the curriculum they will learn? Do you feel that you have the right to say "I don't want my kid to learn about war in history class because war is offensive to me."?


I believe I absolutely have that right. I want a range of choices that allows me to choose the school with the curriculum I want (we do that for colleges). The problem is government monopoly schools that add these extraneous items. This questionnaire is not part of a "curriculum" of study.

legislating from the bench

As an aside, this is a phrase I love to hate. I contend that there are many things that should be decided by courts and not by the legislative process (aka the will of the collective). Where those boundaries lie is certainly open to debate, but not every aspect of society should be subject to the whim of 50% + 1.

[BCPVP]

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I believe I absolutely have that right. I want a range of choices that allows me to choose the school with the curriculum I want (we do that for colleges).

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And this decision has no impact on this as well as reaffirming the right of parents to decide where their child goes to school.

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The problem is government monopoly schools that add these extraneous items.

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Then don't send your child to a public school. That is your right.

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This questionnaire is not part of a "curriculum" of study.

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Correct, it was a voluntary survey asked of the children. I have already stated that I think the questions were inappropriate for the age level of the children and the survey's consent form failed to mention that such questions would be asked. But the argument before the court was whether parents have the right to be the exclusive providers of sexual information while the child is in public school not the correctness of the survey. Indeed, several times the court said it did not want to comment on the wisdom of the survey or its questions.

[ QUOTE ]
I contend that there are many things that should be decided by courts and not by the legislative process (aka the will of the collective). Where those boundaries lie is certainly open to debate, but not every aspect of society should be subject to the whim of 50% + 1.

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Of course there are things that should be decided by the courts. But do you really want moral issues settled by the court system, where they are much harder to undo than when legislatures of popularly elected representatives make such determinations? Especially of local issues like this one? Wouldn't you agree that the power of one parent to make a difference in these types of cases is much greater when the decision is made by someone who answers to the people than by someone who doesn't? If you have any conservative/libertarian tendencies, you should have a lot of trouble with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals deciding what your child can and cannot be taught in school, much less any other moral issues.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone think that parents have a Constitutional Right to force the school to not teach evolution? [ QUOTE ]
Not through the courts.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like you don't (or shouldn') disagree with the 9th circuit. You have the right to vote like-minded school board members in, create petitions, withhold donations...but the federal courts aren't the arbiters of what is "good" curriculum.

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Exactly the conclusion I've come to after reading about this. I didn't at first. At first, the social conservative inside me cried foul, but after looking deeper, I see it is the conservative solution.

[elwoodblues]

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I believe I absolutely have that right. I want a range of choices that allows me to choose the school with the curriculum I want (we do that for colleges).

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And you still can under this decision. What you can't do is upon selecting a school (with a particular curriculum) sue because you don't like the curriculum. If the decision went the other way you could potentially have 1000 Kurn (and Kurn wannabes) suing over each curriculum decision by the school. That is an absolute disastrous result.

[TomCollins]

You just have to move or pay again. No biggie, shouldn't be inconvinient for you.

[elwoodblues]

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You just have to move or pay again. No biggie, shouldn't be inconvinient for you.

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So the solution is to give curriculum veto power to every parent in the district? Brilliant.

The other solution is, obviously, to actively engage in the political process to affect changes in your district --- to persuade the school board that their curriculum is bad.

[natedogg]

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How do any parents here feel about this?
The story is from the WND (for those who need to screen their info). Here's the opinion on the case. I've only briefly read the opinion, but it seems incredible...

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It goes without saying that the current version of our public school system is a cancer on our society.

The tragedy here is NOT that some kids were taught about sex. Just as the tragedy in Kansas is NOT that some poor backwards kids will be taught that intelligent design has merit.

The tragedy is that parents have no control over their child's education, and that certain portions of our society have no qualms about commandeering those decisions from parents.

Self-righteous leftists think nothing of sneakily indoctrinating children with, to put it charitably, a bit over the top graphic sex ed that some parents oppose. Self-righteous christians think nothing about recruiting the state to force their silly superstitiouns onto the whole of the public school populations.

Both of these sides are terribly, terribly, wrong.

Neither can see that they are employing the same tactics backed by the same philosophy: WE believe your kids should be indoctrinated in OUR way and screw you if you don't like it.

There is an obvious answer to all this.... And anyone who actually values true liberty knows that school choice is the only moral approach to publicly providing education to the masses.

If you can't live with the fact that some people may not think like you and yet they should have the freedom to raise their children the way they like, then you don't value freedom.

natedogg

[BCPVP]

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It goes without saying that the current version of our public school system is a cancer on our society.

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Harsh wording. I (and probably millions of others) don't feel like the product of a cancer on society.

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The tragedy is that parents have no control over their child's education

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This is not true.

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and that certain portions of our society have no qualms about commandeering those decisions from parents.

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Which is why parents should fight back. Big government is like a weed; give it an inch, it'll take up the yard. But that implies you gave it an inch and did little to fight back. Isn't this our responsibility as citizens?

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Self-righteous leftists think nothing of sneakily indoctrinating children with, to put it charitably, a bit over the top graphic sex ed that some parents oppose. Self-righteous christians think nothing about recruiting the state to force their silly superstitiouns onto the whole of the public school populations.

Both of these sides are terribly, terribly, wrong.

Neither can see that they are employing the same tactics backed by the same philosophy: WE believe your kids should be indoctrinated in OUR way and screw you if you don't like it.

There is an obvious answer to all this.... And anyone who actually values true liberty knows that school choice is the only moral approach to publicly providing education to the masses.

If you can't live with the fact that some people may not think like you and yet they should have the freedom to raise their children the way they like, then you don't value freedom.

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Agreed.

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't you agree that if you send your kid to public school, you don't have the right to start picking and choosing what parts of the curriculum they will learn? Do you feel that you have the right to say "I don't want my kid to learn about war in history class because war is offensive to me."?


I believe I absolutely have that right. I want a range of choices that allows me to choose the school with the curriculum I want (we do that for colleges). The problem is government monopoly schools that add these extraneous items. This questionnaire is not part of a "curriculum" of study.


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"I believe that fancy "mathematics" is the devil's work. Now, rather than homeschool my kid like most others with my views do, I am going send him your school. And I better not here him talk about learning none of them fancy numbers. When you teach the heathens about math, I want you to pull my kid out of the class and put him somewhere else where he can quietly read the bible."

That sound about right to you?