The Rantings of elROY

[andyfox]

The message which is ludicrous is that Ralph Nader's program, since he is a socialist, is the same as the socialist Adolph Hitler's.

[eLROY]

[ QUOTE ]
If there is not a finite amount of resources which is not possible to put ine denominator of a fraction, how could your "correct" statement be any more possible than my alleged incorrect one?

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Suppose you add 1 and I add 9 to a number, over and over. We will never get to "infinity," but I will add 90% and you will ad 10%. Or, if we start with "infinity," and I pull 9 off and you pull 1 off, over and over, I will produce 90%, but we would never consume 90% of anything!

Because if something cannot be used up, but keeps giving and giving - such as the design concept for the flathead screwdriver - then it cannot be consumed. And people in the US can produce 90% of such inventions.

You view rocks as resources, and I view people as resources. And any healthy adult with a proper religious upbringing can always produce, invent, learn, and discover more than he will consume over his lifetime. And still, one person can produce nine times a much as another, usually for the simple reason that he lives in a social system which has been allowed to grow up around the assumption.

Using common economic measurements, there is a finite amount of wealth produced by people in a given year. But that wealth is not resources under your definition. Quite the opposite, you green wackos see the absence of human industriousness as wealth, and you see buildings and ambulances and farms - at least when owned by other people - as a net loss. That wealth is resources under my definition, and can be produced. But no fraction of it has ever been exhausted.

Resources don't exist in the abstract, there are no resources on Mars, not until people make them into resources. Resources are the product of human inegnuity, such as the invention of the internal-combustion engine. The amount of production of wealth and knowledge - the resource - is finite and measureable in a given year. But the amount of resources not used is infinite. Resources can be used, and production can be consumed, but resources cannot be used up.

[eLROY]

[ QUOTE ]
The message which is ludicrous is that Ralph Nader's program, since he is a socialist, is the same as the socialist Adolph Hitler's.

[/ QUOTE ]
See, I'm not a hustler and demagogue like you, Andy Fox. You have projected your own instinct onto me, but I don't have it. According to your "what Kerry should do" post, you think John Kerry should lie, in order to discredit George Bush. And you think I am doing the same thing you advocate doing.

But my purpose in noting similarities between Nader and Hitler was simply to share an observation, not to convince people of something which I don't believe myself. This is a common pattern among Democrats, not Republicans. They try to imagine what Republicans value, and paint Bush as a bad choice measured against those values. They never sell their own values. They try to get you to buy into an argument which they, themselves, do not believe. They say, "Vote against Bush because Bin Laden escaped." But even if Bush had captured Bin Laden, they would still rather have Kerry. They dislike Bush for their own reasons.

So you think that I am using your tactic, by adopting your values - specifically your cartoon image of Hitler as an evil Jew killer or something - and trying to paint Ralph Nader as being bad according to your values (since you are too dumb to understand the complex economics which I can, for your good). You think I want you to think Nader is bad because he is a Jew killer. But I never said anything more than what I said. If I told you my new electric guitar was as shiny as a black Ferrari, it would simply be a desription of my guitar, not an exploitation of your past experience with black Ferraris! It would not be in the hopes that you confuse my guitar and a car. I do not assume your brain is a simple Hopfield network, as you assume the brain of the Bush voter is.

Now it is a fact that, whereas guitars cannot be driven like cars, socialists generally kill millions of people. So you might decide that if Ralph Nader were dictator, millions of people would starve. But presenting people with data to analyze their own patterns, is totally different from saying two patterns are the same thing, and then specifying what unmentioned, yet unseen part of the pattern can be assumed to also be the same. There are infinite possible extrapolations, none of which did I mention.

I am not saying "This is the same as this, take my word, and therefore predict this." If I remember correctly, the first time I brought this up, I said that IF the car companies in Detroit were run primarily by Jewish people - to such an extent that the unsafe car companies and the Jewish culture were closely associated - then Ralph Nader would have attacked car companies and Jewish culture and genetics as a single concept. Of course that is no longer fashionable in the US, but it is probably what he would have done if there were no fashion precedent.

But when I first pointed out that Ralph Nader offered a similar program to Adolf Hitler, it was not in order to scare dumb people into thinking Ralph Nader would gas them. It really was just an interesting observation which I wanted to share! I am not one of these people who says "Bush is Hitler," in the hopes people will make some random association, such as that Bush will kill Jews. That statement can be translated as "think of Bush as Hitler, and treat him similarly." I talk economics with analytic people in a poker forum, not Yahoo teens. You are not Pavlov's dog, and I do not expect to simply pull triggers and push buttons by saying certain words.

It is not my instinct to think that far ahead, I'm in a world of discovery myself. To be honest, the reaction of the mob to pronouncements like "Bush is Hitler," and this whole peer-verification/self-reinforcing gossip cycle is a mystery to me. I guess you have long been down the road of lying and demagoguery, AndyFox, I have some catching up to do!

Now you tell me, do you think socialism can exist without genocide, racism, or euthanasia? Once you create a centrally "distributed" pie, then any newcomer gets his slice at the expense of an incumbent, and each incumbent at the expense of another incumbent! Killing becomes profitable, by increasing the percentage of the "zero sum" left for you.