Scandinavia - working socialist economies?

[WillMagic]

Or not...

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/510

The results are shocking. High taxes and government spending in Scandinavian countries have lead to anemic growth in job creation and GDP.

Will

[Cyrus]

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http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/510

The results are shocking. High taxes and government spending in Scandinavian countries have lead to anemic growth in job creation and GDP.

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As poster PVN is fond of saying, "You have to be rich to be a success?"

By the measurements of purely GNP, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finnland, or Iceland might not be your "runaway success stories" but methinks there are other measurements too. Or they should be.

As a friend of mine was fond of saying, "When we pump out the last barrel of oil and cut down the last tree, we will discover that we cannot eat money."

[sam h]

This is a very deceptive article on a number of fronts. In the last twenty years, the Nordic countries have not done appreciably worse than other European countries except for Ireland. But Ireland was starting from a low GDP base anyway and took advantage of many idiosyncratic advantages like a very educated workforce and a favorable mix of social actors. It is one interesting piece of evidence in the debate about how to best compete today. But it would be foolish and simplistic to latch onto Ireland's performance and proclaim it to be evidence for the superiority of a general model of political economy. If you want the counter-argument, after all, just look at how well the variations on the "Irish model" have performed in Latin America. And Ireland itself is now probably in for rougher times than it has experienced in the last decade.

[whiskeytown]

This is a great book to read about the Irish

Basically, the Irish Scholars kept much of the written part of Western Civilization alive while Europe when thru the Dark Ages - They saved much of our written Western tradition - part of Cahill's "Hinges of History" series.

They are a unique culture - and it's odd because it's strongest influences on modern society these days are from immigrants, not the locals. I've been told it's much easier to make a living in an Irish band in the US then in Ireland - well, trad. bands - not necessarily U2 - LOL

I'm obscenely proud to be part Irish.

RB

[tylerdurden]

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As poster PVN is fond of saying, "You have to be rich to be a success?"

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Of course, that was a completely different context.

I would argue that one should have to show *some* improvement as a minimum requirement for being a success. Here, we're talking about massive government intervention that *reduces* all measureable aggregate indicators.

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By the measurements of purely GNP, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finnland, or Iceland might not be your "runaway success stories" but methinks there are other measurements too. Or they should be.

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Such as? Maybe you'd like a Gross National Plundering index that measures how much is stolen from the producers and squandered. That seems like something most European nations would score high in.

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As a friend of mine was fond of saying, "When we pump out the last barrel of oil and cut down the last tree, we will discover that we cannot eat money."

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You can't eat oil or trees, either.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Maximizing job creation or GDP growth has rarely been the main goal of Scandinavian governments, so the whole discussion is meaningless. The Swedish government is not stupid, they know that certain alternative policies would increase GDP faster. It is a choice.

[tylerdurden]

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Maximizing job creation or GDP growth has rarely been the main goal of Scandinavian governments, so the whole discussion is meaningless. The Swedish government is not stupid, they know that certain alternative policies would increase GDP faster. It is a choice.

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At least they're up front about the damage their policies are doing.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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Maximizing job creation or GDP growth has rarely been the main goal of Scandinavian governments, so the whole discussion is meaningless. The Swedish government is not stupid, they know that certain alternative policies would increase GDP faster. It is a choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least they're up front about the damage their policies are doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damage/success is very relative in this context. It is a value judgment. The Scandinavian model is more focused on increasing the utility of those who are worst off in society based on a philosophical belief that this is the main aim of the state, whereas in the US the economic model is more focused on high GDP based on the philosophical belief that this is the main aim of the society.

Of course this isn't black and white. Neither US or Scandinavia is on either extreme side of this spectre.

[tylerdurden]

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Damage/success is very relative in this context. It is a value judgment.

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A judgement some make and impose on others. A judgement that does cause damages to some (and enrichment of others).

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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Damage/success is very relative in this context. It is a value judgment.

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A judgement some make and impose on others. A judgement that does cause damages to some (and enrichment of others).

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Only your ideology is free of this (no sarcasm). Still I don't support it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].