#1 advanced concept I wished I hadn't learned

AceofSpades · #1 12-06-2005, 11:09 PM

The resteal push... It seems like I'm always pushing AQ, 99, etc, into MP/LP "steal raise." And being dominated and losing big....

anybody have specific conditions under which you resteal?

Pat Southern · #2 12-06-2005, 11:15 PM

Pushing with AQ and 99 isn't restealing.

#3 12-06-2005, 11:16 PM

It has a lot more to do with the player. Big pairs get dealt to the button as often as they get dealt under the gun. If a tight player raises from the button for the first time in ages, I'm mucking my 87s. If the top stack does it for the fifth time, I'm pushing. I'm pretty much always pushing 99 or AQ there, if the stack sizes are right, though- that's not a re-steal, it's a value bet.

gobboboy · #4 12-06-2005, 11:22 PM

One of the principle parts of restealing is knowing when your opponent would (and should) make the raise with any two cards. Then you can resteal with any two cards. If you're planning to get called then you're not restealing successfully.

AceofSpades · #5 12-06-2005, 11:36 PM

this hand is typical of what happens when I resteal. Stacks are much deeper, and I had a top 3 hand but the principle seems the same.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) converter

SB (t23915)
BB (t8080)
UTG (t56779)
UTG+1 (t21602)
MP1 (t8090)
MP2 (t13875)
MP3 (t25655)
CO (t36328)
Hero (t33245)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO raises to t1600, Hero raises to t33220, 2 folds, CO calls t31620.

Flop: (t66615) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t66615) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t66615) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t66615

Villain had AQs and had raised in that position twice previously.

I just find myself getting called very often with a hand they raised for value. I also think people are restealing from me and calling them badly as well. Perhaps at $100+ buyins people are steal raising more I don't know...

- J

Pat Southern · #6 12-07-2005, 12:05 AM

Thats a terrible push, raise to 5k if you want to get any action on your big hands. ITS NOT CALLED RESTEALING WHEN YOU HAVE KK!!!!!!

#7 12-07-2005, 12:06 AM

OK, well going all-in for 20x the original raise is not generally a good idea. Villain doesn't have to have a good hand very often to make that a profitable situation for him. It sounds like you are playing at low limits- you shouldn't assume people are re-stealing very often. Wait until someone comes over the top of you more than once before you start calling with marginal hands. Again, it's ok to fold the best hand now and again, you only have to call correctly a few times to make up for the incorrect folds.

MLG · #8 12-07-2005, 12:11 AM

you should be happy then since you clearly havent learned it.

Blindcurve · #9 12-07-2005, 12:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is typical of what happens when I resteal. Stacks are much deeper, and I had a top 3 hand but the principle seems the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure that the fact that you had a top 3 hand makes it impossible for the principle to be the same. Not only are you not stealing here, you're opponent isn't stealing either.

[ QUOTE ]
I just find myself getting called very often with a hand they raised for value. I also think people are restealing from me and calling them badly as well. Perhaps at $100+ buyins people are steal raising more I don't know...

[/ QUOTE ]
This makes sense. If they're not stealing, and they believe they have enough equity against your range, they're going to call. If they think you're stealing, and they raise for value, and you misread their intentions you're going to make a few sloppy calls.

I've been thinking a lot lately about what it means for me to play within my limitations. One of the factors I need to work on is not getting myself into situations I don't quite understand. For the buyins I play, (micro up to $22) the opportunity to resteal happens so infrequently that I don't look for it. The resteal scenario or paradigm is just not very useful for my play and to interpret the action in terms of marginal steal/restealing will lead me to more errors than correct plays. That's not to say I never make this play; it just doesn't come up in every tournament. If I make a resteal, the situation is so blatantly obvious that the move feels like a reflex. And that just doesn't happen often.

AceofSpades · #10 12-07-2005, 12:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thats a terrible push, raise to 5k if you want to get any action on your big hands. ITS NOT CALLED RESTEALING WHEN YOU HAVE KK!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I'm not really used to playing this deep. But the hand before I had also pushed on the flop, and I'm pretty sure she was steamed at being pushed off two pair.