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  #1  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:55 AM
pottie pottie is offline
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Default $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (3 handed) converter

Hero (t2660)
Button (t4150)
SB (t3190)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t600</font>, Hero ?
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:57 AM
Sykes Sykes is offline
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

Push. KJ is too good 3 handed with 9BB.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:59 AM
Kristian Kristian is offline
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

Push, unless you have a specific reason to suspect trickiness.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:03 PM
Sciolist Sciolist is offline
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

Push - I hate min raisers.
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:23 PM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

Depends on what you believe your fold equity to be against him.

If he calls even as much as a third of the time, you're going to have to pray his raising range is in the top 37-40% of hands, which is pretty wide.

Two responses on this thread 'I hate min-raisers' and 'KJ is too good 3 handed with 9bb' are totally missing the point, as usual.
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:31 PM
Sykes Sykes is offline
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

[ QUOTE ]
Depends on what you believe your fold equity to be against him.

If he calls even as much as a third of the time, you're going to have to pray his raising range is in the top 37-40% of hands, which is pretty wide.

Two responses on this thread 'I hate min-raisers' and 'KJ is too good 3 handed with 9bb' are totally missing the point, as usual.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you on drugs?

Are you saying you'd fold? Or that you'd call and play "some poker"?

Seriously, wtf. The default play here is to push.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:33 PM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

No I'm not on drugs, I just happened to do the ICM maths on this situation.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

[ QUOTE ]
Two responses on this thread 'I hate min-raisers' and 'KJ is too good 3 handed with 9bb' are totally missing the point, as usual.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol... good to have you back tigerite.

seriously though, the key is how the bubble played and how ITM has gone so far. has he called any all-in pushes? what's his typical SB behavior been (completeing, pushing, min-raising, standard raising)?

basically, you make this push if you think he's going to respond weakly to aggression (i.e. fold). i actually don't think you want a call here.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:35 PM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

[ QUOTE ]
basically, you make this push if you think he's going to respond weakly to aggression (i.e. fold). i actually don't think you want a call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct! You don't want a call here - unless he is folding enough to make up for when he DOES call (because of the "dead" 900 chips). It might seem counter-intuitive, but if he called 100% of the time here, you'd have to be 50.3% favourite for it to be +$EV.. and KJo just doesn't stand up that well against a whole lot (thus the need for it to be a 39% range). The problem is, when he folds the bottom X% of that range, then the hands he still calls with, KJo holds up badly against those too, and so on.. it doesn't get below 37% range til he's folding 40%+ of the time.

That is what I was trying to get at, but hey, ridicule is fine too.
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:38 PM
Sykes Sykes is offline
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Default Re: $55 Quick check 3: KJo on BB facing SB miniraise

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
basically, you make this push if you think he's going to respond weakly to aggression (i.e. fold). i actually don't think you want a call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct! You don't want a call here - unless he is folding enough to make up for when he DOES call (because of the "dead" 900 chips). It might seem counter-intuitive, but if he called 100% of the time here, you'd have to be 50.3% favourite for it to be +$EV.. and KJo just doesn't stand up that well against a whole lot (thus the need for it to be a 39% range). The problem is, when he folds the bottom X% of that range, then the hands he still calls with, KJo holds up badly against those too, and so on.. it doesn't get below 37% range til he's folding 40%+ of the time.

That is what I was trying to get at, but hey, ridicule is fine too.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you put SB min-raise/call-a-push range at?

22+? A9+? KJ+?

We're 37/63 against that range.

So, all the matters is the number of times SB folds.

You're telling me that it's correct to fold KJ w/9BB ITM to a min-raise?
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