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  #1  
Old 12-10-2005, 01:44 AM
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Default Call or raise the river?

UTG after 21 hands is 64/0/0.4. Plays darn near any 2 cards as long as one of them has a face, and also plays any pair. The rest of the table is pretty tight, ~25-30% see the flop, less if there's a raise. SB is 5 <yes 5!!>/1/1.7 after 72 hands. I've already had the table fold to me while in the blinds once, rare at .10/.20. I was actually gonna start practicing some blind steals when the wife saw a mouse in the basement [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

I just had a hard time putting this guy on the diamond draw or a set. If he had 4 to the flush on the flop, I'd expect a bet, even from a passive guy, and if he had a set, a raise would would maybe come on the turn, or a check-raise on the river. At least, that was my thought process. The donk on the river just didn't add up for me. I figure he might have had Kx or Ax, or maybe a pocket pair, but I still think I'm ahead of this guy, so I raised. Is this a smart move, or should you just call?
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2005, 01:49 AM
Eeegah Eeegah is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Raising 99 and flopping quads
Posts: 609
Default Re: Call or raise the river?

You're assuming an awful lot about a typical loose-passive. The fish I know don't like getting their money in unless they have a sure thing, and at .4 AF your fish sounds like one of my fish. I doubt he would bet a flush draw, and if he had a 3 he could have plausibly been scared by the 2nd queen on the turn.

I seriously doubt he'd be betting anything less than a flush on the river, especially given how scary that board is.

Edit: are you seriously suggesting that a .4AF donk would bluff with A high on a board like this?
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Old 12-10-2005, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Call or raise the river?

Pardon the ignorance, but I'm still a newb and trying to put actions to numbers here... So what does .4 AF tell you? What can you expect from this guy? Is this a sign of someone that only bets if they have the nuts? I'm trying hard to watch each players betting patterns, but nothing about this guy stood out, so... He's led out betting before (not often, but a couple times... couldn't tell you what his cards were off the top of my head though), but hadn't won any hands yet (out-kicked a few times, the usual).

thanks
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Old 12-10-2005, 02:07 AM
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Default Re: Call or raise the river?

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: are you seriously suggesting that a .4AF donk would bluff with A high on a board like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, not really, I actually expected Kx. I thought he might've had Ax during the hand, hence his draw, but on the river, I was thinking (possibly erroneously?) Kx. He showed 77, so MHIG. I was just wondering how wise the raise on the river was. I still have trouble putting guys on a range of hands based on their stats... The tags are easy for me, that's how I play, but an LP guy, who can play anything? Sometimes I give them too much credit, other times, I think they'll do something that everyone here says "no way a fish'll do that". LP just runs contrary to how I think so I have a hard time relating to it.
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2005, 04:34 AM
ajm36 ajm36 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 18
Default Re: Call or raise the river?

he has a flush--fold--this IS what fish do...here fishy fishy fishy, oh, such a pretty little fish...do you like that, do you like that, do you wnat some more...here fishy fishy fishy
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2005, 04:41 AM
ajm36 ajm36 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 18
Default Re: Call or raise the river?

Look, this clown plays A LOT of hands and NEVER raises PF and has barely enough aggression to register a number. Dolts like this almost NEVER bet less than 2 pair, and, on a coordinated board, will rarely bet less than a straight. The only thing raising them does is force them into c/c mode.
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Old 12-10-2005, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: Call or raise the river?

He all of a sudden wakes up on the river when the third diamond hits and with a AF of 0,4 hmm, I don't think he is bluffing. At the very best for you, he hit his K here. I think I call behind here since his pattern smells alot like a flush draw. But looking back at his river action, the call behind seems strange.

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero...

That makes the check easy to be honest.
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